MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



93 



13 August, 1919.] 



MK. W. T. LAWRENCE. 



[Continued. 



hour in the morning and the hour in the evening 

 to these women, I did not mean to say they were 

 milking during the whole of that time. We generally 

 get the milking done in half an hour; but there is 

 other work these women are engaged in, such as the 

 washing up. 



2223. Something should be charged, should there 

 not, for the upkeep of utensils and repairs? Yes, I 

 put that down in depreciation. 



2224. I am talking of the upkeep in addition to 

 the depreciation? In the depreciation I rather in- 

 clude replacement too. 



2225. Do you think that is sufficient ; that 10 per 

 cent, will cover all upkeep and cover depreciation .' - 

 Yes, I think so, because the machinery we use is very 

 small indeed as far as the cows are concerned. 



2226. On the question of machinery, I notica you 

 have no depreciation of it in the summer period? 

 No. The only depreciation in the summer penod is 

 on the milking utensils and that sort of thing. 



2227. So that your depreciation is not 10 per rent, 

 for a year on your machinery? No; 5 per cent 



2228. Then you put in the price of cake at 20 a 

 ton. Is that delivered at your premises or at the 

 railway station? At the railway station. 



2229. How far away is that? We are a short two 

 miles away. 



2230. Who pays for the carting from the station to 

 the byre? We do our railing 0111 selves. 



2231. Do you charge for it against the milk pro- 

 duction? No, I should hardly think we do. 



2232. Why not? It might be. 



2233. Surely it should be. I think you would agree 

 it should bo? Yes, I think so; but in the matter of 

 the insurance you were speaking of just now, it so 

 happens that the insurance is managed by the 

 Accountant at Carlisle amongst all other County 

 Council insurances, and so I do not actually pay it 

 That is the reason why it was not included there. 



2234. Do you know if there are any other such 

 items that you do not pay, but which are paid ? 

 There is the men paying the contribution to the 

 Health Insurance. I pay that. 



2235. I have made another calculation in the winter 

 period ; and that is, that you allow off one-third of 

 cake for cows giving little or dry 49. You told us 

 that they get 4 Ibs. of cake per day. and there are 196 

 days and 20 cows. I make that to come not to .t-19. 

 but only to 4 13s. 4d.? The way I reckoned that 

 was this. You see in the full ration there is 9d. 

 charged for cake. I knocked off 3d., and 3d. a day 

 for 196 days for 20 cows comes, I think, to 49. 



2236. I was taking it on the actual price of the 

 rake. CIO l:ts. 4d.? I expect that would be getting 

 the even pence, the 9d. Perhaps the difference lies 

 there. 



2237. You have your cowman down here as working 

 in the winter lo hours a week. During part of that 

 period he is milking. I understand? Yes. 



2238. AlKiut how many hours would he be milking 

 about two hours n day? That is so. Then the rest of 

 the time is the feeding and attending to the OOWB. 



2239. Would not ho get it all done in the remain- 

 ing hour? He has to attend to all the understock as 

 well, in just about the 10 hours that they work. 



22-40. Is that man ever paid overtime? No. He 

 will be if we work in hay time. 



2241. But not in connection with milk production? 

 You see, the rule with us in Cumberland is this. 



that we are allowed customary hours ; but the custom- 

 ary hours have now been defined as 63 hours, which 

 is 10 hours a day for six days a week and three hours 

 for Sunday. For that they get a minimum wage 

 which would amount to 48s. 6d. ; but. as a matter of 

 fact, our men get -50s., a little above the minimum. 



2242. Can you tell me during the period under 

 review, which is the middle of May, 1918, up to the 

 middle of May this year, whether Cumberland cows 

 were not of considerably more value than 46 a-pieco? 

 It was no use for me to estimate at all. and I have 

 tnken the value as on the 31st March, our annual 

 valuation. We have two of the most experienced 

 valuers in Cumberland. 



2243. Yes ; but I put it to you that you would not 

 be able to buy those two cows in any market at less 

 than 70 apiece? No, you could not 



2244. So that your interest on capital being based 

 on 45, is much less than that of an ordinary farmer? 

 I do not know. You must take this into account. 

 You see some of the cows are strippers. Some of your 

 cows are half way through their milking period. It 

 is only the cows that are just newly calved that are 

 at their very maximum and will be about two months, 

 that are worth 60 to 70. So that if you level the 

 lot of heifers you have brought in cows that are dry 

 and cows that are half dry I do not know that 4o 

 is a bad average. 



2245. Did I hear you correctly state, in answer, 

 to Dr. Douglas, that last year the average yield would 

 lie something like 540 gallons? Yes. 



2246. Are the figures you give us in the accounts, 

 605 gallons, exact figures-' No. I thought it would 

 be unfair to give the 540, for the simple reaston as 

 I explained that our figures are of no value what- 

 ever as an estimate in the near future, simply be- 

 cause we have to teach these girls to milk, and it is 

 ruining the milk yield of our herd although they are 

 most excellent dairy cows. I have taken the average 

 of o years. 



2247. But may I suggest to you you have not taken 

 the average of five years in regard to wages, in regard 

 to depreciation, and in regard to the other items 

 such as thistle cutting and hedging? No; those were 

 facts. 



2248. Against that on the other side, instead of a 

 fact which should have been something like 540 

 gallons you give us 605 ? Yes ; but you see that would 

 have been a misleading fact. 



2249. No, it would have been a fact? But it would 

 hive been an exceptional case. 



2250. But it would have shown the exact cost during 

 the period under review? Yes; but it would have 

 been unfair to have made any deduction from that. 



Dr. 7)<nnjlas : I feel bound to say, in getting the 

 statement from this witness, I thought I was getting 

 the actual facts in the year. 



2251. Mi: Batchelor: I will put it in this way. 

 Do you expect for the year now begun to get 605 

 gallons? No, I do not. 



2252. So that the figure you have given us. is an 

 old figure you used to get? It is not a very old 

 figure because it is an average of five years, which 

 would be a true representation if it had not been 

 for our peculiar position as an educational establish- 

 ment. You should not have asked me to come and 

 give evidence unless you were satisfied to take a 

 certain amount of estimation in the matter, because 

 ours is entirely an exceptional case. 



22.">3. I have no objection to the estimation so long 

 .is I know it is one; but on the face of it here, we 

 .were under the impression, I think, that you had 

 given us the exact cost of production, and on the 

 other hand the exact yield for a definite period, the 

 middle of May of last year to the middle of May 

 of this. With regard to cows, I think you told Mr. 

 Overman that a proportion of your cows at least 

 ',-alved about December? Yes. 



2254. In this summer statement you have calves 18 

 at 3, 54. There is no word as to calves on the 

 winter statement at all? That .does not come in as 

 part of the estimation at all. I merely stated that as 

 a fact. 



2255. That is for the year? Yes. I mean to say 

 that none of that value comes in the milk production. 



2256. I perceive that no credit has been taken for 

 it? -No The farmer gets that value over and above 

 his 150. 



2257. You have estimated the gross cost of growing 

 swedes at 20 per acre. Is that for the 1919 crop? 

 No, that is for the 1918 crop. 



2258. What would you consider the 1919 price 

 might be? Judging from the appearance of the crops 

 at the present time, I should think it would be 25 

 an acre. 



2259. 25 an acre, and how many tons? It would 

 be a clever man who would estimate that, but I have 

 estimated it at the 20 tons. 



2260. Last year; but this coming season? 'This 

 vear it will be less; but I do not know what. 



2261. Considerably less? Yes; yet in our district in 

 many places there is a fairly even plant although 

 they have come so irregularly, and if we could get a 



