96 



ROYAL COMMISSION >x AUHK i I.TTKK. 



13 



. 1919.] 



MB. W. T. LAWBF.NCB. 



:>ltlfll. 



I 



enough with farmers in the County who have milking 

 machine*. 



3333. Do you or do they consider them satisfactory r 

 There is divided opinion. Some think they are 

 satisfactory, and some discard them after they have 

 bad them. 



2334. It in difficult to keep the apparatus clean, is 

 it not? That is the difficulty. 



3335. ilr. .\irh"lls: I only want to ask you alwwt 

 the heifer that is a failure. Do you fat it, or is it 

 sent to the market? It is fattened. 



233(3. Then about the type of woman who comes 

 for training in milking. 1 think you said there is 

 not such a large proportion of farmers' daughters?- 

 There wore not this last two years; but lief ore that 

 they were mostly farmers' daughters, and they will bo 

 in tho future. 



2337. What is the type you have had lately. I only 

 want to know whether they are the type of servant 



irl? Our Committee made the rule that we should 

 _eep our places vacant for land workers; so that 

 practically we have been having 10 pupils, ordinary- 

 pupils, who would be farmers' daughters, and 10 

 that were land workers. Some of those that were 

 land workers could milk, but the majority could not, 

 and some few of the others could not. 



8338. Mr. 1'nrkrr: J am only going to ask you one 

 question. I think you mentioned that on your farm 

 of 130 acres you made a profit of 500? Yes. I 

 hope you will not strain that point too far. 



2339. What I want to know is:, was that a cash 

 profit or was it. a paper profit obtained by the 

 inflated values of the valuation? It was partly due 

 to the inflation shown in tho valuation ; that is to say, 

 our stock this last year was valued at 200 more 

 than it was the year before, but the stock was worth 

 that much more. 



2340. Yes, I know that ; but of that profit of 500, 

 200 was obtained by writing up your stock? Yes, 

 according to the valuation. It was not our own 

 fixing. 



2341. Mr. Smith: Do you experience any difficulty 

 with regard to the lack of proper transport or market- 

 ing, or handling goods to and from the farm? Not 

 in our position. We are so conveniently situated; 

 we are not quite two miles from the station on the 

 main line of the London & North Western Railway 

 of a market town. 



2.SI2. So you are fairly well served? Yes. 



2:U:. I take it these figures you have submitted to 

 us are not necessarily a balance sheet of milk pro- 

 duction? No, it is not in the form of a balance 



sheet at all. 



2344. I take it in the disposal of cows, they would 

 come in on the credit aide. There will be some cows 

 sold from the herd? 1 ! 



2345. Is there any allowance made for things of that 

 description, or how do you come to that? I think 

 that the valuation taken at any particular period of 

 the year, giving what the valuers consider to be the 

 value of the cows right through, really contains tho 

 substance of what you ask for. because we do not 

 expect to realise more than their valuation during 

 the following year on any that are sold. They will 

 be increasing in value from that time. For instance, 

 if a cow is gone, we will say, six months in calf, and 

 she is 1 giving very little milk, she is valued at a 

 certain valuation. We keep her another three months 

 and she comes up to calving, and we sell her then. 

 <!> sells for a big price, but she is only worth that 

 l.ig price for just a short time. We have only Ix-en. 

 keeping her to get that valuation. Unless we keep 

 it for every --ow for the sales, and M> on, I do not 

 think we can do anything more than take the average 

 value at any particular time. 



2346. I sec your costs here include interest on 

 capital as well as putting in profits, so really on thesto 

 figures the ^irplus would be not 150 but 217 over 

 actual costs? Yes: l)tit surely you will allow that 

 there must be interest on capital apart from working 

 profit. 



3347. But that rould really be termed profit over 



actual working costs of production, could not it? A 



man need not hnve engaged in farming at all. He 



' could have invested that money in War Bonds, and 



done nothing at all but sit down, and he could have 



(Thf II'i 



got tho interest on the capital. The 150 is for his 

 work as a farmer. 



3348. Mr. Smith : I am only drawing attention to 

 the fact that that is how tho figures are working 

 Yes. 



2349. And taking that as a balance, the balance 

 would be 217 and not i'loO, looking at it from that 

 stand|K>int, because you have f.'T 10s. and 

 to add to tho other figures. 



J.'i'J). .Mi-. \\'<ill:>r: As the result of the fixing of 

 milk prices as at present existing by the Ministry 

 of Food, could you give us any idea of your profit? 

 I could not at the present time; hut retrospe-tively I 

 think you might take this as a basis hen-. 



J-'i-M. That does' not quite answer my question. 

 Could you supply the figures I have asked for? 

 I could go into last year's prices of milk for each 

 month. 



2352. I am enquiring about existing prices? 

 I could in this way: that I should have to find what 

 it has cost us to produce the milk, which is rather 

 difficult for a short period f years. You see we 

 cannot do it for tho summer time because we are 

 only in the middle of the summer yet. and there is 

 the cost of the feeding of the cattle, and so on. Then 

 against that, of course, there are the prices that hate 

 been fixed. There is no difficulty about getting at the 

 prices that have been fixed and the quantities of milk 

 which are registered regularly. The difficulty would 

 be in finding the cost of production at the present 

 time. I am in great difficulties over it, because our 

 grass land has not been feeding the cattle. This 

 summer it is getting very nearly, if not quite at 

 the present time, to the winter cost of keep. 



2353. Yes; but has not 'the Ministrv of Food fixed 

 the price of milk at the present time? Yes; but not 

 tn meet the cost of the present time in the North of 

 England, at any rate. 



2354. I repeat the question. Could you give us 

 your profit on the prices fixed by the Ministry of 

 Food? Could you secure them for us? I could give 

 you an estimate, and that is tho most I could do. 



2355. You could not give us the actual figures? 

 No. no one can. 



2356. I understood from questions that you have 

 answered, that you do make cheese and butter? Yes. 



2357. Is there any reason why the results of the 

 making of that cheese and butter should not have 

 been included in this statement? What is the reason 

 they nro not in? I was asked to give evidence on 

 the cost of milk production. I did not deal with what 

 use was made of the milk. I took it it was in order 

 that you might have some information as to tho value 

 of the milk, whether it was for selling or for whatever 

 purposes it might be. I thought probably the milk 

 selling was the chief consideration you had in mind. 

 I think we have made more at cheese making than 

 wo should have made by milk selling. On the other 

 hand, we have made less by butter making; but we 

 have to make butter and cheese for the instruction of 

 our pupils. 



2358. My last question is. do you think there should 

 bo a guaranteed price for milk?- Yes. I think so. 



I'M/")!). Why?- Simply because I have- a little sym- 

 pathy towards the consumer, being a consumer myself : 

 but at the same time if there is not a guaranteed 

 price, with the prospects that we have before us now, I 

 think milk will rise to a very very considerable price 

 above what it is running at. at the present time. 



2360. I am dealing with a guaranteed price to the 

 milk producer? That is. you mean to say, a price that 

 guarantees tho production and allowing him reason- 

 able profit? 



2361. Yes? That is fair enough. 

 236Ia. You agree with that? Yes. 



2362. And also for cheese? Yes. 



2363. Dr. flouglax: Might I put one question aris- 

 ing out of the last question? ll.-no you considered at 

 all how a guaranteed price for milk would need to bo 

 administered, or whether it would entail the purchase 

 of all tho milk by tho State as the guaranteeing 

 purchaser? T am afraid I have not. 



Chuirm'in : Thank you very much. 



u'Uhilrrw). 



