too 



OiM\||-*-l"\ "N Ai.lili I I. II III . 



13 Augiut, 1919.] 



\Yll.l.lAM II. BBVEBllNiE, K.C.B. 



[Continual. 



( A.IIIIII.JH: Wo hiiw had Mr. Howell here, 

 nd he HUH kind ni.uigh to suy In- would -ml u- wh.it 

 be had, but thu Ministry of hood may have something 

 c|uit. imlcjicndently of tin-in. 



_'l_'7. !/. 1'nrkit: 1 gather ili-i US-.HUI is going on 

 uli regard to tli<> winter prices nt \\> > n you 



at all indicate the prico that an- likely to .\entiiuie 

 from that discussion? 1 do not dunk 1 ran to-day. 

 J t may be settled in a week. 



8428. But not now!' 1 should say the discussion i- 

 at its height. 



.I/,, \\cholls: I wanU-d to n.sk you with re 

 gard to potatoes. Han your !> |..n nu.'iit any i. , i, 

 tentative* in tlie Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire 

 area!' Yea, as Zonal Chairmen. 



2430. I wanted to know whether this Commission 

 would bo able to get the difference in the prices 

 l..tu,,n J.ini.ilii-hiro. jKitntoe* and Cambridge-inn- 

 the Kly area whether it is possible for us to find 

 out in the cost of production what variations, if any, 

 tlit-rt* are between those two districts. They are two 

 great producing districts, and I wanted to know 

 whether they tallied out similar:' Whether their , 

 costs of production are the same? 



L'l.'il. Yes!- You can get estimates. 



Jl.'tJ. Hut 1 mean on last year's production we have 

 had potatoes which have been controlled, sold and 

 dealt with by representative men of the Department. 

 Is it possible for us to find out which of those two 

 areas produced them at the cheaper rate? I know 

 the two districts. They are both good ; and I want 

 to know if there is any difference per ton between 

 them:' I will certainly find that for you. 



'2-l'M. I'hiiiriniin: You say in paragraph 8 of your 

 " Heads of Preliminary Evidence," that a " Travelling 

 Commission for Kngland and Wales fixed the diftV:en 

 tial scales for different parts of the country after 

 considering farmers' icturiH and crop prospects, 

 departmental bargains for Scotland and Ireland." So 

 that what you aid in fact do was, fix different 

 prices for dilferent districts ; and it would be useful 

 to have the data UJKHI which you fixed those different 

 prices for the different districts ? I will dend you 

 the Potato Growers' Prices Commission Keport. 



2434. Mr. .\irhnllx: What I am anxious about i.s, 

 whether later on with regard to costing this Com- 

 ir.i.4-.ion would consider it worth while to have further 

 evidence from the men who had to do with it in the 

 districts, and we could call them? Certainly, but I 

 only want to say that it was not the Zonal Chair- 

 men who fixed those prices. 



L'l.'i.'). I am speaking now of the representative who 

 ffas in touch with your Department, and was respon- 

 ible for the* areas. A man is responsible for the 

 area, and that is the only point I am anxious about. 

 I want to get the actual cost of production?! will 

 give you the names of the Zonal Chairmen, and so 

 on. 



3436. Mr. Lennard: Do I understand that you pro- 

 pose to submit to the Commission a full memorandum 

 on the point* of which you have given heads? No. 

 I rather contemplated, if" I was to have any examina- 

 tion-in-chief, going through it and developing these 

 points. On any point on which I am Baked for a 

 memorandum. I will gladly submit it, but 1 rather 

 contemplated developing and giving instances of those 

 difficulties of price fixing in section 9, for in-tance. 

 1M.'!7. Ma- your Department any information as to 

 factors likely to influence the cost of production in 

 agriculture outside the Briti>.h Isles, and therefore 

 a* to ini|>orto<l food-stuffs in the future!- We have 

 information in so far as any body has it. certainly; 

 but there is obviously great uncertainty. I mean no 

 one can foretell either the simply or the demand in 

 the cane of many of these articles. 



Hut you nould. perhaps. In- .,hle to gi\. 

 w,me indication of the possible general tcnd< n 

 M to whether then, wen- soni.,-, ,.| supply which 

 "re likely to be developed, and the souiees \ihieh 



likely to be costly!- The I.UMH.-V, ,,f prnph. 

 o verv difficult. Take the very important article of 

 linseed cake. We ,-ei diametrically op|Mmito views 



the probable tendency of pi -, 



'21V.L But it would be leas difficult in regard to n 

 very bulky MBimodit; of Isfrge volume like coivals!- 



O anyone tell you what thu wheat crop in America 

 in really going to be? No one can 



J:t" .No; but you can tell us, for instance, whether, 

 tln> ilc\eliipment of, nay, the production in the Argen- 

 tine, ha-s In en , hecked by retarded railway develop- 

 ment, or whether the ureas still suitable for cereal 

 production and undeveloped have been considerably 

 diminished so that 4 hi? margin has become lew con- 

 sideralilo, and BO on. 1 think we should be \erv 

 grateful if you could give us any information of that 

 k.ml!- -Are you thinking of feeding stuffs or cereals? 



3441. I am thinking principally of cereals!- All 

 i-. including wheat not merely maiy.c fit-ding 

 .stuffs and cereals .- 



2442. I was thinking chiefly of wheat, oats and 

 barley, cereals for which there are guaranteed prices 

 at present? You want such forecasts as we can get 

 of the cereal position !- 



2443. Yes? I will see that you get all the informa- 

 tion that we I, 



'-'111. If guaranteed prices of the cereals I have 

 named wore fixed at a level above the normal level of 

 world prices that would involve a burden upon tax- 

 payers in general, would not it!- Yes. 



2445. Hence it would mean n charge on urban indus- 

 try for the benefit of agriculture? Yes. 



2446. You would agree that guaranteed prices for 

 cereals if higher than the normal world prices, would 

 cause a larger proportion of the cereals we need to be 

 grown in this country? I presume that, is the inten- 

 tion and would be the effect. 



2447. If a larger projM>rtion of the total supply were 

 grown in this country, British climatic- conditions 

 would have n greater influence, and the market price 

 would tend to vary more from one year to another. 

 Is that not so? You would not have so largo a pro- 

 portion of the supply grown in a variety of climates 

 and areas, so that a bad harvest in one region would 

 be made up for by a good harvest in another. A 

 larger proportion of your supply would be subjected 

 to one risk? I am not quite sure of that; because it 

 is possible that the additional supply that we got 

 from this country by a guarantee might otherwise 

 bar* come entirely from some other one country which 

 might therefore equally be liable to climatic condi- 

 tions. I do not think that the British climatic con- 

 ditions, so far as 1 know, are more variable than 

 those of any one other country. 



2448. But is it likely on the whole that the margin 

 of land where the particular coste of production pre- 

 vail which you wore rejecting as a source of supply 

 by this method would be found entirely in one country 

 of the whole world:- No, I suppose not likely it is 

 not impossible. 



2449. I put it to you that fluctuations in the price 

 of cereals involve fluctuations in the sales of nrinv 

 urban products. When, for instance, the price of 

 bread goes up, working people do not buy less bread 

 hut spend more on their bread and postpone pur- 

 chases of carpete, furniture, clothes, and so forth. 



Chairman: I do not see how Sir William could 

 answer that question. It is a speculative mie-Hon on 

 which DM opinion, I suggest, would not be of great 

 value. The action of the Ministry of Food and the 

 policy of the Ministry of Food is what Sir William is 

 liere to spook on, and I think beyond that he cannot 

 go to express an opinion which is" not much use to us 



Mr. Ltnnara-. With deference, sir, I am trving to 

 develop a point in regard to the cost to the com- 

 munity of guaranteed prices, nnd if you will allow 

 me I wish to ask a question. 



r/, ;,,: (',.,( ;1 inly, if you ask a question on the 

 guarantee for particular items I think that is quite 

 in order. 



\lr. l.rnnnnl: The point bears on a problem on 

 which I submit Sir William is the greatest authority- 

 in the world. 



' If fluctuations in the price of cereals cause 

 flue nations m the sale of many urban product* that 

 rould tend to produce unemployment or short time 

 amongst the people who make (We urban prod 



- yes; but may I say at on,,, that I do not 



ollow your argument, and 1 hope I have not assented 



that a guarantee of prices will increase the 



fluctuation of prices which the public pay. You may 



get considwaUa fluctuation in the amount ,,f th,. 



Mato s subsidy, but .It might be actually i<> 



