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K.'YAl. ( .'MMI>M<>\ ,.N At.Klrl Ml l;|.. 



13 Auy*l. 



SIR WILLIAM II. BKVKKII.OE, K.c.U 



3. Mr. DaUfi>: Your Department ..i the Mm 

 >f Food represents not one particular interest 

 in tho community, but the community as a whole;' 



l 'Die uloa eo far ait price* are concern 

 to Mtfeguard tho interests of the coiumuiiity? Yes. 



>>. You kaow all about the guaranteed price* 

 that uo .. niUi, and i should Jikv 



views to enable us to carry out our duty which 

 is to do justice to the industry while at the came 

 time safeguarding tho community. What I fear is 

 that we might he subsidising the industry, or that 

 there is a danger of it, at tho expense of the com- 

 munity, la there any nu>thod you can suggest which 

 will not only give fair play to the industry but at 

 the wime time protect tho interests of the cc>rs>umer:- 



\ . cannot .subsidise it except at the cost of the 

 taxpayer, and so the main body of the consumers, 

 but a subsidy may be in tho interests of the con- 

 sumer as well as the producer. Your question is 

 rather general ; perhaps you could develop it. I 

 want to be helpful if I can. 



2528. In times of peace things are (juito different 

 from what they are in times of war such as we have 

 gone through, and if the world price say for wheat 

 is 60s., and the guaranteed price was 70s., it would 

 mean that the community would have to pay 10s. 

 per quarter extra ? Yes. 



2527. What we are anxious or some of us are 

 anxious about is that the community shall not be bled 

 in order to subsidise or bolster up a particular 

 interest. Can you suggest any other method if there 

 is such a thing as a method apart from this guaran- 

 teeing of prices;' For encouraging agriculture? 



-. Yes, and at the same time safeguarding 

 the interests of the community? I do not see any- 

 way of encouraging agriculture apart from guarantee- 

 ing prices, except of course by giving assistance 

 in the development of agriculture, and helping by 

 the spread of knowledge of scientific methods, and so 

 on. I do not see what other method is possible if 

 you decide that it is necessary to develop agri- 

 culture here. Of course, whether it is necessary or 

 not is a further question. 



2529. You are not an agricultural expert? No. 



2530. Therefore you would not be in a position 

 to say whether agriculture could be developed with- 

 out any subsidy? No. The only business of the 

 Ministry is with food, and it does not matter 

 whether it conies from abroad or here. That is the 

 reason why the one food in which the Ministry is 

 mostly interested is milk, because that must <"< -mo 

 from home. Other things which must come from 

 abroad, from the departmental point of view are 

 not so important to us. 



2531. Your department has drafted a scheme for 

 dealing with the control and the supply of milk? 

 Yes. 



2532. Could we have copies of that scheme? I 

 think there is no reason why you should not; it has 

 never been actually published "but it has been shown 

 to a number of people. I see no reason why you 

 should not have it. I must, of course, ask Mr. 

 Holiorts first, but I think we can send you that. 



L'.Vtt. Some of us have it, but I want tho meinl>. -T* 

 of the Commission to have a copy of it? There i.- 

 no question at all about our being willing to let 

 the Commission have it ; the only question is whether 

 it can be published. Personally I see no objc< 

 but that is the only question. As to the 

 of the Commission having it, there is not the slight- 

 est question. 



Dr. Douglas: I should like to raise the question 

 whether we should have information of this kind 

 which is confidential. 



''I'inrman: Confidential to the Commission and BO 

 far as the Government nro concern"'!. 



Dr. Douylm: Is it to be made public by g 



2534. Chairman: That is a question ." .--hall have, 

 to decide, (Tti Ihr Kiln.**): Meanwhile, will \ou 

 allow us to have it- Yes. and I hone to let Von 

 have it without any reservation. 



} ' r - I'"' Mealing i(h mill;, I think 



VMI have laid UN that yon have w.-n tho l!-;uling 



-nits in regard to the yield of milk pre- 



-i . " 1 ' 



. And that those .showed better results tl .an 

 other general dairies:- They show much better 

 resnltr, than are lieinj; advanced mm. and 1 am 

 tolil that lor that and for other reasons 1 must not 



1 them as t \ , 



ll::'.e \.U Men tile Ic.Mllt.s this pie.sclil 



I have seen a number of ligures relating to this 

 present year. 



From Heading:-- No. 



'l "ii do not know whether Heading has gone 

 down in t. m the result of coming through tho 



war with fewer feeding stuffs r- No; 1 should think it 

 jirohalily had. but I do not know. 



i told n.s that your Department now has a 

 proposal to compare present with pre-war prices? 



I. To enable you to do that I piesume you will 

 agree with me you require to have the cost of pro- 

 duction prices pre-war? If you want to compare cost 

 of production prices pre-war with cost of production 

 now , you must have them. 



2542. That is what you intend to do? I am pre- 

 pared to proceed either on cost of production prices or 

 on market prices. 



2543. Have you hod cost of production prices pre- 

 war? About as much as I have them now. 



2544. Is that sufficiently satisfactory ? It is not 

 very satisfactory, no. 



2545. So that you do not have the genuine data as 

 regards the cost of production prices pre-war to 

 enable you to compare them with the cost of pro- 

 duction prices now:' They are not as good as I want 

 them, but 1 think in comparing Ihe two .sets of data 

 you eliminate a number of errors which are common to 

 both. 



2546. From what source do you get your c<i- 

 production prices now? Do you mean for that parti- 

 cular comparison? 



2547. For any comparison in regard to milk, fur 

 instance;' There is a certain amount of information 

 about the cost of the production of milk before the 

 war available. 



2548. Where do you get your cost of production 

 prices now of the items which go to produce the final 

 result as regards milk? Are you thinking of things 

 like roots? 



2549. Yes? I gel them from ihe expert advisers of 

 the Ministry of Food. I try to get them checked by 

 consultations with the Committee of which you are a 

 member, and the Agricultural Advisory Council. 



2550. In the meantime you rely principally upon 

 the agricultural advisers of the Ministry of Food for 

 these figures? I rely upon them subject to tho 

 criticism of an outside body. 



2551. You have told us that there is a considerable 

 element of bargaining required before you arrive at 

 the prices which are ultimately fixed as the maximum 



Before the bargaining begins, is it not the 



case that you get from producers as many estimated 



em- of their txts as you can, and have those 



examined and checked by your practical experts at 



the Ministry? Are you thinking of milk? 



'2~>~>'2. Anything? The procedure varies so much 

 from one food to another that I can give no general 

 answer. 



i. In this case we will take it in regard to 

 milk:- -In repaid to milk I think you know we have 

 had a Travelling Commission which has collected a lot 

 of information. 1 am very donl.tful as to the extent 

 to which that information can be said to have been 

 checked. I do not think in fact that it has been very 

 much checked except by a certain amount of examina- 

 tion of witnesses. 



2654. Has it been submitted to voiir practical ex- 

 ami gone into by them? 'i 



2655. After that, and not till then, does tin- 

 bargaining begin that is all preliminary to the bar- 

 gaining? Yes. 



In ..tin r wolds, -.on h;,\e .., foundlltie. 



as you can get to it, of the estimated ., 

 production, clu-ck.*! by your own ngu- . \ou 



to bargain?- fVrtainly, wo examine into 'the 

 matter before we discuss it with the interests con- 



e. I lied. 



