no 



IJnY.M. 



ON M.l:l< I I.TrilK. 



13 .\,,yu4i, 1919.] 



SIR .IAMKS WILSON, K.t - 1 





SIR JAMBS WILSON, K. C.S.I., Chairman, Central Agricultural Wage* Committee for Scotland, called 



and 



8, t'/iuirnwn : You are tho Chairman of the 

 Central Agricultural Wage* Committee for Scot- 

 land ? Yes. 



2739. You hare prepared a statement which none 

 of UB baa had the opportunity of seeing yet? 1 am 

 sorry I did not hnv- time to got copies made. 



'. The heading* <>l that statement an-: (1) 

 Constitution and Term of Office of District Com- 

 mittees and ol ti.e ( ential Comiiiiit- - I' 

 of Committees; (3) Method of working and rates fixe*! 

 for male workers in Forfar and Perth, Fife and 

 Kinross, Ayr, Dumfries and Galloway, and in other 

 districts; (4) Valuation of benefits and advantages; 

 (5) Kates actually paid considerably above mu<imum 

 rates; (6) Minimum rates for adult woman workers- 



2741. What we want to try to do is to find a 

 balance sheet of agriculture for to-day and for 

 to-morrow. That is what we are out to get, and 

 ao doubt what you will be able to toll the Com- 

 mission will be of great advantage to them. I would 

 suggest that perhaps items (1), (2) and (3) might bo 

 ligntly touched upon. Items (4) and (">) yen might 

 |>crhaps develop to a larger extent, and generally the 

 statement which you have prepared for our informa- 

 tion might be included amongst the documents 

 appended to the report of to-day's proceedings? Very 

 good, sir. 



Chairman: I will ask Dr. Douglas to be so kind 

 as to commence tho questions to you. 



2742. l>i . Douglas : The system in Scotland is a 

 little different, is it not, from the Knglish system? 

 There are special clauses of the Corn Production 

 Act applying to Scotland ? Yes. There are con- 

 siderable differences. Perhaps it will be better if 

 I read what I have to say about that subject. 



2743. Yes, we should be glad to have those remarks 

 of yours? The Provisions of tho Corn Production 

 Act regarding the fixing of minimum rates of wages 

 for agricultural workers are greatly modified, in 

 their application to Scotland, by the Second Schedule 

 to the Act, which has the effect in Scotland of 

 dividing the powers of the Agricultural K'agos Board 

 between tho District Committees and the Central 

 Committee. Under that schedule, and the regulations 

 which have been issued by the Board cf Agriculture 

 for Scotland, the country has been divided into 

 twelve Wages Districts, each of which has its own 

 District Wages Committee, formed of representatives 

 of employers and workers in equal numbers, with 

 a chairman elected by agreement between the two 

 sides. 



2744. There is no nominated outeide member? 

 No. Tho number of representatives on either side 

 varies for tho different districts from four to nine. 

 In most of tho districts the represen tut ires of the 

 employers were elected at meetings of delegates sent 

 for the purpose by the Scottish Chamber of Agri- 

 culture, the National Farmers' Union of Scotland, 

 and the principal local agricultural societies. In a 

 number of districts the selection of tho workers' 

 representatives was made by the local branches of 

 the Scottish Fjirm Servants' Union, m.n-menibors 

 being in some coses invited to take part in the 



m, but in some, districts, especially in tho 

 Highland*, where there were few branches of tho 

 1'nion, the selection of workers' representatives uas 

 jinrtly at meetings organised by the Executive 

 Committee of the Farm Servants' Union and pi-rtly 

 by nomination. The election of the rapraMBtvtiTW 

 i,n IK. th sides was left as much as possible to the 

 employers and workmen of each district. This led 

 to considerable delay in setting up the Comnr 

 !mt in the end resulted in giving almost every dis- 

 trict a wagon committee, each member of which had 

 I. ecu elected. Tln> Board of Agriculture v ere able 

 to accept each of these twelve committees as fairly 

 representative of the employers and workers of tho 

 district, and to certify it as tho committee in\' 

 with the statutory powers conferred l.y tho schedule 

 <:n n District Wanes Committee. AH required by 

 Schedule II. the I'oard of Agriculture grou] c'l 

 twelve districts into five groups, in each of which the 

 employers' representatives and the workers' ropn--. n 

 tntivos rospi-ctivolT elected a member "of the Central 

 iYnjf Committee for Scotland. These ten <!. 



, with the Chairman and two HI. men i,, em- 

 bers appointed by tho Board of Agriculture, form 

 the ( < ntrat ( .immittcc. Thus, with the i-neption 

 of those three appointed me illy all the 



members, whether ot tho District Committees or ol 

 the Central Comnntu-o, have I . tho 



persons interested, or by delegates seloctod by tlu-m 

 tor the puipo.e I | Hoard of Agriculture fixed the 

 term of office of the Chairman of the Central Com- 

 B as three years. For the other members, loth 

 I the District Committees and of the Central 

 mittce, the term of office was originally fixed to 

 expire on 31st December, 1918, but it has since 

 extended and under the present orders will expire 

 mi :)lst December, 1919. The Central Committee. 

 have recently unanimously recommended tho Board 

 of Agriculture to arrange for a complete new elec- 

 tion of all members about October next. 'I lien as 

 to the powers of committees. In Scotland, under the 

 schedule, a District Committee oxercit.es all tho 

 poucrs of tho Agricultural Wages Board in. dor the 

 Act, except >uch as may be reserved to tho Central 

 Committee by regulations made by the Board of 

 Agriculture. The only powers reserved nro (1) the 

 power of taking proceedings against an employer 

 under Section 7 of the Act for paying less than the 

 minimum wage, and (2) the power of laying down 

 general principles on which benefits and ad\an 

 are to be valued for the purpose of the minimum 

 wage. Otherwise the powers of the Agricultural 

 Wages Board in England are almost entirely exer- 

 cised by the District Committee .n Scotlan I. 



2745. Do the decisions of the District Wages Board 

 require the sanction of the Central Committee? 

 As legards rates of wage, they have got to report to 

 the Central ( 'ommittee their decision, and the Central 

 CniiimitUv may wiithin three mouths disallow th.it 

 decision. It need not pass any Order about it at 

 all, in which case it comes into force after three 

 months, but it may within three months disallow the 

 decision of the District Committee. 



2746. Tho fixing of wages in Scotland is in the 

 nature of an agreement between the two sets of 

 persona concerned acting through their representa- 

 tives, subject only to :i power of veto to be 



within threo months by the Central Committee, and 

 that Central Committee in its turn is chiefly repre- 

 sentative of the two interests- That is so. There 

 is one guarding principle I must put in there. The 

 idea was that the representatives of the two sides 

 should agree-, but as a matter of fact they have very 

 seldom agreed as regards the minimum rate to be 

 fixed. The general rule has been that they have dif- 

 fered to such an extent that thoir (Tiairman could 

 not bring them together. Tho voting was oqn 

 cither side. The Chairman has not got a casting 

 vote, but tho Chairman of the District ('ommittee in 

 the case of equal voting has power to give a deci- 

 sion, and in a groat many cases that has liecn the 

 state of things. Tho workmen's and tho farmers' 

 representatives on the District Committee being equal 

 in voting, the Chairman had to give the binding 

 decision of tho District Committee. 



2747. To come to another point, can you tell us 

 within what limits tho minimum wages in Scottish 

 districts are fixed? Yes, I have a list of them hero. 



2748. Give us tho highest and the lowest? The 

 highest was fixed by the Central Committee the other 

 day for ploughmen, cattlemen, and shepherds in the 

 Forfar and Perth district. The fixing of that rate 

 came forward to tho Central Commit too. which had 

 then tho powor to fix the rate they thought bo.sf. In 

 that case wo fixed 42s. a week for an ex|>orioncod 

 ploughman, cattle man, or shepherd. 



'J7(!>. What was the lowest rate? The lowest rate 

 of all, I think, is in the North West Highlands. 



2750. I think th North West Highlands district 

 would scarcely In a comparable district. Tak 

 lowest of tho other d ; striot<s? .- The lowest of tho other 

 districts is 30d. for an adult worker over 21 , \vhr> is 

 neither ploughman, cattleman, nor shepherd. 



275' Where is that?- That is in Caithness, in 

 Sutherland. Moray Firth, South West Highland*, and 

 also in the Horder Counties. 



2~. r >2. Yon have evidence to give us with regard to 

 the actual wages paid to the effect that tbe^e are 



