Ill' 



KOTAI. COMMI--1 IQBICULTUBB. 



13 A*y*tt, 1919.] 



SIR JAMBS WIUON, K.C - I 



[Continued. 



gire.) Then I go on to My : The Committee gener- 

 ally agreed that, whore the District Committee had 

 arrived at a decision with practical vnanimity, they 

 would not, a& a rule, exercise their j <.wr f >\t* 

 allowing it, but would let it pan as representing 

 an agreement between the local representative*, 

 oven although the Central Committee might 

 not entirely approve of it. In other cases 

 !tbo, when the decision of the I. istrict Com- 

 mittee won only that of a majority, or of 

 the Cliiiirnian himself, the majority of the Central 

 ComiiiitU-o thought it best not to disallow it, unless 

 it seemed much too high or too low, or involved a 

 question of principle. One result of this system of 

 working was that there is great diversity between the 

 rates fixed, and between the conditions on which they 

 are to be reckoned in the different districts. Will you 

 allow me to give you a very good instance of the 

 way decisions are given in Scotland? We have been 

 progressing in our idea*, and the Central Committee 

 at its meeting on the 12th Juno passed important 

 decisions regarding male workmen in three districts. 

 One was Forfar and Perth, in which the wages are 

 of the highest. For that district the Central Com- 

 mittee, in accordance with the recommendation of 

 th<< District Committee, decided that the minimum 

 rates are to be reckoned as applying to an average 

 for the year of 54 hours per week exclusive of meal 

 times and time required for stable-work, allowance 

 being made for 21 full days or 42 half-days holidays 

 in each year, besides the usual New Tear's Day holi- 

 day, and in the case of yearly engagements one 

 hiring fair day, and in the case of half-yearly engage- 

 ments two hiring fair days, and that all employment 

 in excess of the working hours so calculated shall he 

 treated as overtime employment for the purpose 

 of the differential rates for overtime, provided that, 

 when a workman is by the conditions of his employ- 

 ment required to attend to animals, no stable-work, 

 byre-work, shepherding, or other work necessary for 

 tlie health and comfort of the animals shall ho 

 reckoned as overtime employment. The history of 

 that condition in Forfar and Perth, as I daresay the 

 Commission know, is this: there was an important 

 conference between representatives of the National 

 Farmers' Union and the Farm Servants' Union of 

 Scotland at Perth, at which the question of working 

 hours was discussed, and an agreement was come to 

 between both sides at that conference, and a recom- 

 mendation was issued through the Press in accord- 

 dance with these conditions I have just read out. 

 Owing to some misunderstanding that agreement un- 

 fortunately fell through, and those recommendations 

 have now been withdrawn. But the Forfar and 

 Perth Statutory Wages Committee thought it best 

 to base the calculation of the working hours on that 

 agreement, which has been acted upon by a good many 

 of the farmers in different parts of Scotland, although 

 the recommendation 'was withdrawn by the two sides, 

 and we thought that it was a fair arrangement, and 

 ns the District Committee of Forfar and Perth 

 wished to fix those hours as the basis of the calculation 

 of the minimum wage, the Central Committee fixed 

 them accordingly. On the other hand we had made 

 i similar sort of proposal for Ayrshire. The Central 

 Committee had ultimately to fix the rate of wiu 

 Ayrshire for male workers over 18. We proposed the 

 mme sort of scheme that we had pro) rased for Forfar 

 and Perth. We consulted the Avr District Committtv 

 about it, and they unanimously recommended that 

 instead of different rates for different classes of men 

 there should be a flat rate of 37s. per week for all 

 male workmen over 18 years of ago, to be reckoned 

 on the hours customarily worked in the district. The 

 majority of us in the Central Committee did not 

 approve of that flat rate on the customary hours, 

 hut as it was a unanimous recommendation from both 

 sides, we fired it in accordance with their recom- 

 mendation. So that the conditions in Forfar and 

 Perth are different from thn.se in Ayr. because the 

 Txical Committee in Ayr thought it bent to come to an 

 agreement. I have papers here showing what rates 

 have been fixed I can get copies from Edinburgh 

 and also showing the values placed upon the benefit* 

 and advantages, or the perquisites, as they call them 

 in Gotland. It in a very imj>ortant question in some 



parts of Scotland because it comes to a lot of money. 

 In my own neighbourhood they come to about 16a. a 

 week. In all these cases we have included in the rates 

 we fixed the value of the benefit* and advantages. 



3776. Dr. Douglas: They are put in at a valuation 

 and included in the minimum wage: 1 Yes. 



-J7r> Mi. Ilia: Do I understand that the Central 

 Committee is appointed by the District Committee 

 so many representatives of employers and so many 

 representatives of workers? There arc five on each 

 side elected by the employers on the District Com- 

 mittees and the employees. We have 12 District 

 Committees, but they are grouped for this purpose 

 into five, according to the Act. 



2777. Each Committee has not got a representative? 

 No ; there are generally two or three Committees in 



a group. 



2778. You mentioned two members besides yourself 

 appointed by the Board of Agriculture. Are they 

 independent or do they represent one section each I" - 

 They are appointed by the Board of Agriculture:. The 

 Act simply says the Board has to appoint two women 

 members. It says nothing about their qualifications 

 at all. One of them, as a matter of fact, is the 

 Duchess of Atholl. and the other Miss Jobson, from 

 Aberdeen. Those are the only two appointed, and I 

 myself have been appointed as Chairman. The others 

 have all been elected. 



2779. You have nothing in the nature of in- 

 dependent members beyond those? No. 



2780. Are there any independent members on the 

 District Committees? No, none at all. Even the 

 Chairman of the District Committee is elected by 

 the elected members of the Committee itself. 



2781. The District Committees have the power of 

 fixing wages subject to your either confirming or 

 rejecting it? They have. 



2782. It is not your Central Committee which fixed 

 the wages and sends it to them for approval? Not 

 unless the District Committee fails to fix them, in 

 which case it comes to the Central Cbmmr 



2783. In practice you say you have found that the 

 District Committees very rarely come to an agreement 

 except by the decision of the Chairman? They often 

 did not come to an agreement, and in that case the 

 Chairman himself gives his own decision as he thinks 

 fit. 



2784. Which is really practically the casting vote 

 of the Chairman? Yes, I believe it was put in that 

 form as the Chairman might not wish to vote either 

 with one side or the other, but to give an independent 

 finding of his own. 



2785. Do you mean his finding might not he in 

 accordance with the proposition the Committee 

 favoured, and that he might make some different 

 proposition and send it up to your Central Com- 

 mittee? Yes, that is so. 



2786. In your benefits and allowances you include 

 a much greater number of things than we do in 

 England. That, I presume is because the custom 

 prevails in Scotland that a good deal of the wages 

 are taken in kind? In some parts of Scotland. It 

 varies very much in different parts of Scotland. 



-7^7. On both sides do employers and workmen wish 

 that system to be continued? There has been a good 

 deal of discussion about it. I believe that a number 

 of the farm servants would like to sec wages in kind 

 aliolished and wages in cash introduced, but I think 

 the majority of the farm servants prefer to adhere 

 to the old custom at all events at present. 



2788. Because they get their house and potatoes. 

 Mia Is, and in many cases meal, and that sort of thing ' 

 Yes, in many cases. 



2789. And you include practically in the benefit* 

 many of these things which it has been custom to 

 |u-o\ide? Yes. One or two Committees harp prn 

 hihited the inclusion of some things. Kor instance, 

 in some places the claim was made that the cartage 

 of coal should bo allowed for. When n man chance* 

 from one farm fo another, his goods are carted for him 

 by the farmer, and there was an idea of charging for 

 that. Some Committees have allowed it to stand, and 

 others have prohibited it towards the reckoning of 

 the minimum wages. 



2790. You have no fixed scale. It is according 

 to the requirement* f the District Committee to 



