MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



13 Augutt, 1919.] 



SIR JAMES WILSON, K. C.S.I. 



[Continued. 



suit their own localities? Each District Committee 

 draws up a list of the allowances to be made. 



2791. The Central Committee has no recognised 

 scale; it leaves it to the District Committee? We 

 have the power to decide an appeal in case of differ- 

 ence. One side or the other, if a difference exists, 

 may refer it to the Central Committee by way of 

 appeal. We have only had one such appeal, and 

 therefore practically it has been dwided by the 

 District Committee without interference by the Cen- 

 tral Committee, except that the Central Committee 

 were directed by the Board of Agriculture to draw 

 up the principles on which these values should be 

 reckoned, and that we have done. 



2792. You say you are reducing the hours to 54? 

 Vifty-four, subject to holidays. As I said, the Porfar 

 and Perth Wages Committee recommended for their 

 district that the minimum wage should be reckoned 

 on the hours agreed upon by the Perth Conference, 

 which was a voluntary thing outeide the Act alto- 

 gether. In that part of Scotland most of the plough- 

 men and shepherds are engaged for the whole year. 

 If a man engages according to the recommendation 

 of the Perth Conference for a" 54-hour week, subject 

 to 21 days' holidays, or 42 half-holidays in the year, 

 he is really bargaining to work 50 hours a week for 

 the whole year. The average comes exactly to 50 

 hours. 



2793. In the case of cattle men, is time of attend- 

 ing to the stock and the stable work over nud above 

 that time? It is. 



2794. It is 50 hours field work? Ye,. 



2795. Is the cattle man paid for his stable work 

 as overtime? In the case of Forfar and Perth the 

 Central Committee the other day fixed the minimum 

 wage for an ordinary labourer at 36s. a week, and 

 said that if a man was employed as a cattle man 

 or a ploughman, or a shepherd, he r.nist get a 

 lump sum of 6s. a week more to cover his stable 

 work and attendance on the animals. 



2796. In the case of shepherds, have you not a 

 great number of men engaged on " kind " wages 

 and getting no cash at all? Formerly that was so, 

 but now a shepherd gets a cash wage and considerable 

 perquisites in addition sometimes what is called a 

 pack, which means a number of sheep. 



2797. Is it left to private bargaining bftwe.en the 

 employer and the man? F*or the purpose of the 

 minimum wage? 



2798. Yes? Some of the Committees have left it 

 to be dealt with as each case comes up. Some of 

 the committees have fixed what they think to be a 

 fair average. 



2799. It is more the principle than the means I 

 was trying to get at whether it was left to the 

 employer of the man, or whether the District Com- 

 mittee reserved to themselves the right of saying 

 what the keep of a cow should bo in arriving at 

 tho minimum rates? Some districts hare reckoned 

 the average value of the keep of a cow, and others 

 simply as it comes up. 



2800. You say women workers are practically en- 

 gaged for the whole year? Yes. It is the fact that 

 in Scotland quite a number of women are engaged 

 for the whole year or for six months. 



2801. Has the committee fixed rates for casual 

 ivorkors as well as weekly rates? Yes. we have fixed 

 rates for those too. 



2802. Mr. Overman: You said that tho benefit* 

 and additions, or perquisites as you call them 'in 

 Scotland, in Fprfarshire and Perthshire amounted 

 to 16s. a week? About that at present t rices. 



2803. In reckoning a minimum wage of 42s., that 

 wag taken into calculation, I presume? Yes. 



2804 Is any portion of that deducted from the 

 42s. when the man is paid? No, not when the man 

 is paid. _ 



-,. He gete his 42s. and his perquisites? Pardon 

 me he gets far more than 42s. in cash altogether. 

 His actual wage is much higher than the minimum 

 wage, but a farmer is not liable to be fined unless 

 he pays a man less than 42s. all told. If a case 

 arose in which a farmer was accusod of paying 

 less than 42s. to the ploughman, the Court would 

 have to reckon what was the value of oatmeal, rrilk, 

 potato^, nml bouse, and that sort rf thing given 

 to the man besides his. cash wages, and only if that 



251 2.-, 



total fell below 42s. a week would the farmer be 

 liable to a fine. 



2806. Mr. Batch dor: I think it would be an ad- 

 vantage to this Commission if you would give us in 

 detail, as to Forfarshire and Perthshire, the items 

 making up the 16s., or whatever the figure is, per 

 week for perquisites, if you have them? I remember 

 them pretty well because Perthshire is my neighbour- 

 hood. In Perthshire it includes the house and garden. 

 I am not sure about England, but in Scotland every 

 house is put down as worth something on the valua- 

 tion roll, and we have agreed to take that valuation 

 as it appears in the last valuation roll as the value 

 of the house for this purpose. Generally speaking, 

 in Perthshire it is 4 a year. Then he gets 65 stones 

 of oatmeal a year and has half a gallon of sweet 

 milk a day. 



2807. Potatoes? About a ton of potatoes in the 

 year. It varies a good deal. 



2808. Any other items? There generally are some 

 other items besides those. Those are the main ones. 

 It comes to about los. or 16s. a week at present 

 prices. 



2809. Married or single? Single men often get 

 rather less oatmeal and milk. Those arc the per- 

 quisites of an ordinary married ploughman. 



2810. The minimum wage is 42s. you have told us? 

 -Yes. 



2811. Can you give us an idea of what the actual 

 wages are which were paid in Forfarshire and Perth- 

 shire at last Whitsunday? I made some enquiries 

 as to what were being paid before Whitsunday, and 

 ascertained that Perthshire and Forfarshire wages 

 were rather over 50s. a week for the ordinary 

 ploughman. 



2812. Are you aware that in Forfarshire at the 

 end of May immediately after the 28th single 

 ploughmen were being engaged at a cash wage of 

 80 for the half year? I saw that reported in the 

 papers. 



2813. That works out at 61s. 6d. per week in^cash, 

 and those same men would have in addition los. or 

 16s. of perquisites? I have no information except 

 what I saw in the newspapers about those high 

 cash wages. Of course, it is possible that the men 

 who got those high cash wages did not et any 

 perquisites. 



2814. I can assure you it is a fact that they were 

 getting perquisites in addition to the cash wages. 

 That makes a total of 77s. 6d.? I Ixslievo there are 

 some cases like that. 



2815. That is the highest in Scotland? It is the 

 highest that I have heard of. 



2816. I suppose Forfarshire and Perthshire are con- 

 sidered to be about the best cropping counties in 

 Scotland ? Yes, quite. 



2817. In addition to that, I think probably you 

 will agree with me that the ploughmen there 

 work as well and probably better than in any other 

 part of Scotland? So I understand they are very 

 good men. 



2818. In previous days their working hours were 

 00 hours a week? Yes, before the war I believe they 

 were. In some part of Perthshire before the war 

 they got it down to 9i hours a day 57 hours a week. 



2819. Now these same workmen are really actually 

 working 50 hours a week in addition to stable time? 

 On some farms. 



2820. By allowing the half-holiday, is it not the 

 case that these men in Forfar and Perth engaged 

 at Whitsunday last worked 9 hours on 5 days a week t 

 and half a day on Saturday? Those engaged accord- 

 ing to the Conference agreement, but I do not think 

 that is the state of things on all farms. 



2821. Can you also confirm that at Whitsuntide of 

 this year labo'ur was very scarce? So I understand. 



2822. And that supply and demand regulated these 

 high wages? So I believe. 



2823. And that it was an absolute necessity for the 

 farmer who had his crop in the ground to get workers 

 at whatever cost, so as to be able to get the crop 

 out of the ground during this summer? I suppose 

 so. 



2824. That probably had some effect on the wages 

 being so high? No doubt it would. 



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