116 



<>N A(. Kll I 1. 1 I l;l . 



UU -.I.] 



SIH JAMES WILSON, K.C.8.I. 



1 put it to you that there is no district w l-i. 

 the average wage is anywhere near the minimum, 

 but in most cases it is far above it K- In most cases 

 thai is so. 



2881. Have you any idea of nhiit tho amount of 

 excess is over the minimum wage fixed by the Com- 

 mittee? In the Lowland district* of Scotland I should 

 think about 10s. a week. 



2882. In view of Mr. Batchelor's statement, do you 

 think that is a sufficient allowance? In Korfnrshire- 

 and I think he is correct he said the ploughmen 

 were getting 61s. 6d. plus meal, milk, and so on, 

 which would bring the wage to 75s., whereas the 

 minimum wage of that district fixed by the central 

 Committee is only 42s. ? For :\ ploughman. 



2883. That is 33s. in excess of the minimum in that 

 particular district? Demand and supply come in. 



2884. I quite agree ; I am not disputing that. But 

 if that is so, I put it to you that the minimum wage 

 is quite inadequate in the other districts? I expect 

 tiere arc very few men in Forfar and Perth getting 

 that high rate of wages. The married men in Forfar 

 and Perth are getting something like 52s. or 53s. all 

 told. 



2885. You said in reply to Mr. Dallas that in fixing 

 these extremely low minimum rates you had in mind 

 chiefly the interest of the worker, because you feand 

 there would be some sort of catastrophe happen if you 

 fixed a higher rate? Not chiefly, but we took him into 

 consideration. 



3886. I put it to you that you allowed far too great 

 a margin? Your question comes to this that tho 

 minimum rates fixed by some of the District Com- 

 mittees are too low. 



9887. Mu<:h too low?- A number of them were fixed 

 a year ago or so, and I think we are progressing 

 in our ideas of what the minimum rate ought to be. 



J. You said in reply to Mr. Dallas that in most 

 cases disagreement was 'the rule in the discussions 

 between the men and their employers on the District 

 Committees, and that the decision was given by the 

 Chairman in most cases? Very often. 



2889. And that in the case of the Central Com- 

 mittee the same thing occurred? Very often, not 

 always. 



2890. That is to say the Chairman in both cases, 

 in practice, fixed the minimum rates? Very often. 



2891. You also said that you had more frequently 

 voted with the farmers' side than with the workers' 

 side? On the whole, yes. 



2892. Because the employers' fflde struck you ts 

 more wise? More reasonable. 



2893. I suppose most of the occasions you are speak- 

 ing of were with regard to wages? With regard to 

 hours and perquisites, and all sorts of things. 



2894. Confining yourself to wages for the moment, 

 these rates were fixed by the Chairman, and pre- 

 sumably in favour of the employers' side? Not 

 always. 



2896. No, but in tho majority of cases. Seeing 

 that the wages actually paid are in some cases at 

 least 10s. above the minimum, would you not like to 

 revise the minimum rate? I should probably now 

 try for a higher level of minimum rates than we 

 have actually passed. 



2896. I suggest to you now you would more of (on 

 vote with the workers' side than the farmers' side. 

 What is tho lowost minimum rate you have fixed 

 for men? I think 27s. a wook in 'tho North 

 Highlands. That was not fixed by tlio Central Com- 

 mittee ; it was fixed by the District Committee, and 

 the Central Committee saw no reason to disallow it. 



2897. Was that fixed by the Chairman's vote on the 

 District Committee? That particular 27s. t 



2898. Yes P The North-west Highlands District 

 Committee has hardly ever had a proper meeting. 

 It is very difficult for the men to meet I mean a 

 full meeting. The last meeting that I attended :ii 

 Kort William did not come off because there was 

 not a quorum. They generally manage to make a 

 quorum, but it is very hard for people to come from 

 the Hebrides and Skyo to meetings at Inverness 

 and Fort William : they have therefore never had n 

 full meeting. 



2899. I can qnito understand that when I see the 

 rate fixed T it |>nraih1< to reconcile that 27s. a 



vn'fk ali iho words ul tlio Act in Section 5 (b) r 

 I think ii is in the \\.-i Highlands. 



2900. Could you tell us what is the general atti- 

 tude of the men towards these minimal' Have you 

 any evidence of that.- Do you mean all over Boot- 



2901. Yes, taking it generally. They do not regard 

 these minima us really anything that has to do wiili 

 them at all, do they)'- Not at present; in very few 

 ctaos has it any effect at present. 



2802. It is unreal really f They have not realised 

 the effect 



2903. What are these advantages and benefits you 

 refer to in heading I- You are going to submit a 

 statement to the ( ommixsion !" -Yes; I hare a list here 

 of all the bout-fits and advantages 1 have rei- 



to. 



2904. Could you include in that statemeu 

 principles that were laid down at the Committees P 

 Yes, I can do that. 



2905. Thank you. That will be of service to us. 

 May 1 ask if these principles were agreed to by Ixith 

 .-.ides': 1 Some were agreed, and some wore carried by 

 the majority of votes. I think I have already said 

 that I have urged the Board of Agriculture to collect 

 fuller information ; we are not in a position to collect 

 tho evidence ourselves. 



2906. Have you any evidence of what overtime rates 

 are actually being paid? I have had no official re- 

 port. 1 have only heard here and there. 



2907. Mr. I'rosser Jones : In your capacity as ( 'hair- 

 man of the Central Committee you come into contact 

 with both employers and employees on the District 

 Committees? J try as far as possible to attend their 

 meetings, and they are very good in letting me attend 

 their conferences, although I have no claim to lie 

 present really. 



2908. Is the supply of labour equal to the demand 

 in the various districts? It was, of course, very short 

 during the war, and it is still as a rule. In some 

 districts it is shorter than others. 



2909. With regard to the efficiency of labour, do 

 you find any falling off recently as compared with 

 pre-war times? I cannot speak from personal 

 knowledge because I was away from Scotland until 

 about two years ago, but I believe it is as efficient as 

 before. A great many of our best young men before 

 the war went off to Canada and Australia a numlier 

 of the best agricultural labourers emigrated in con- 

 siderable numbers. If they had stayed, I daresay the 

 labour would have been more efficient than it has 

 been. Then in addition to those, all our best young 

 men, of course, went off to fight during the war, and 

 those left could not possibly have been so strong and 

 able and efficient as the men who went off to fight, 

 but most of them are coming back again now. 



2910. It may lit-lp tho Commission to know your 

 opinion as to the probable supply in the near future: 

 That is a very big question. I can only give m\ 

 own personal impressions. I think that a considerable 

 number of the young ploughmen will try to get em- 

 ployment elsewhere abroad. I think there will I,, 

 quite a rush again of young ploughmen and shepherds 

 from Scotland to Canada and Australia and to some of 

 the other Colonies. On the other hand men who 

 during the war had become accustomed to an open 

 air life will try to take up work on farms. This will 

 counterbalance it a. little, but I think on the whole 

 there will lie a shortage as regards men, and still 

 more perhaps as regards women. 



2911. That will tend to put up the wage, will it not - 

 Yes, certainly; if the supply of labour fulls, that 

 will tend to raise the actual wage. 



2912. Mr. f.rntMrd: Have vou any special rates for 

 SiindiiA work fixed in Scotland? An attempt was 

 mad.' by the North West Highlands Committee to fix 

 a rate for Sunday work. The Central Commitfcv 

 diasallowed it on the ground that no one would work 

 on a Sunday in Scotland whatever rate you )i\i.i|. \V. 

 thought there was no need to have a separate rate for 

 Sunday work, so far as tin- Central Committee 

 concerned 



2913. Would overtime rates apply to Sunday work :- 

 Yos. Oommittev differ in their opinions will 



gard to these things. The Central Committee, 1 

 think I may say. am of opinion that there should be 



