MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



117 



13 August, 1919.] 



SIR JAMES WILSON, K. C.S.I. 



[Continued. 



one overtime rate applicable both to weekdays and 

 Sundays, and that that should be one and a half times 

 the ordinary rate no difference between overtime 

 either on weekdays or Sundays. 



2914. You spoke just now about holidays. I should 

 very much like to hear a little more about the holi- 

 days. How do the holidays affect the minimum rates? 

 In one case (in Perthshire) we decided, on the 

 recommendation of the District Committee, that the 

 minimum rates were to be reckoned as applying to an 

 average for the year of 54 hours per week, exclusive 

 of meal times and 'stable work, and allowing for 21 

 full days or 42 half-days' holidays in each year, 

 besides New Year's Day and Hiring Fair days. 



2915. They must be deducted from the 54 hours? 

 Yes. 



2916. They are not to be counted as working time in 

 the 54 hours? If they are not given, they will be 

 practically charged for as overtime if they are actu- 

 ally worked. 



2917. What is the custom with regard to the ar- 

 rangement of holidays? Do they usually have them 

 on the same day in the different districts ? No ; there 

 is one holiday that affects a whole district that is to 

 say the annual Hiring Fair day. In the case of 

 yearly engagements, or if people are engaged on six- 

 monthly terms, they get two Hiring Fair days. 



2918. Everybody stops work on the Hiring Fair 

 days and goes into the town whether he wants to 

 be hired or not, to meet his fellows and have some 

 amusement, and, of course. New Year's Day in 

 Scotland is a general holiday. The custom before the 

 war has generally been no fixed number of days on 

 leave without pay, but everybody says there was never 

 any difficulty about that that if a man had anv 

 reasonable ground for asking to be away for a day or 

 two to go to a wedding or a funeral, or something of 

 that sort, unless it was during a very busy time, the 

 farmer always gave him leave. It was give and take 

 and there was never any trouble about holidays. 

 Now it is fixed that lliere shall be these 42 half-day 

 holidays or 21 full day holidays in the year. It is 

 v orked out to mean that for 42 weeks in the year they 

 ill have a half-holiday on Saturday, and work ten 

 In/ins a day for the whole week in seed time and 

 harvest, and less in winter. 



2919. There is no arrangement with the Wages 

 Board that the 42 half-holidays shall fall on Saturdays. 

 What I am thinking of is holidays being scattered 

 over the week and distributed among the men. Holi- 

 days on different days in the case of different men 

 are of very much less value to the men than if the 

 holiday fell on the same day, or at any rate so far 

 as possible on the same day. I mean such things as 

 games and so on become possible for the younger men 

 if the holidays are more or less on the one day? 

 Quite so. 



2920. In practice the tendency is for the holiday to 

 fall upon a Saturday? In Scotland certainly. 



2921. But yon have made no provision that the 

 holiday shall fall upon the Saturday? No, that is 

 left to the farmers. 



2922. Mr. Uobbins ; Do you take a gloomy or an 

 optimistic view of the future economic position of 

 the agricultural industry? I am afraid there is going 

 to be a very difficult time in agriculture both for 

 farmers and labourers. 



3923. From your experience could you give the 

 Commission any estimate as to the probable prices 

 that will rule for cereals? I have made a very rough 

 intimate; it is a mere guess. I could put in a paper 

 on the subject in fact, I have done so. 



3924. Mr. Smith: You told us about the rates 

 that had been fixod by your Committees in Scotland. 

 Would those rates in the respective districts represent 

 an' advance on what was previously paid? An 

 advance on pre-war rates certainly. 



2!>2."i. Would tln-y represent an advance on wages 

 that were being paid at the time they were fixed?--- 

 No, hardly anywhere. 



2926. The 4Sfe. would not represent an advance?^ 

 N'o. When we fixed thp minimum wage at 42s. the 

 average actual wage of the ordinary ploughman in 

 that area wan really 50s. or rather more. 



26126 



2927. You have told us that wages go up to as 

 high as 60s. ? At present, yes ; I should say very few 

 are getting as much as 60s. 



2928. According to a question put by Mr. Batchelor 

 it might be assumed that in some cases they are 

 actually higher. I think he stated that an 80s. cash 

 wage for six months was being paid with perquisites 

 in addition? I have heard a rumour as to those 

 cases, but I should think they are very few. 



2929. But they do exist? I suppose so, as the 

 papers say so. 



2930. Could you tell us what basis you take for 

 valuing the perquisites. You told us what basis you 

 took for the rent, that is the valuation roll, but what 

 basis did you take for the meal and potatoes in deter- 

 mining the value? We have drawn up the general 

 principles in this paper a copy of which I shall put 

 in. I can tell you roughly from memory what we 

 said about meal. 



2931. Do you take the retail or the wholesale price? 

 The wholesale price. 



2932. So that those wages in actual value would be 

 worth more than appear upon the surface especially 

 if he sells any of his meal? Yes, if the man sold 

 his meal retail, but he does not sell much; he and 

 his family consume it. 



2933. It is correct to say that wages in Scotland 

 are, on the whole, considerably more than the rates 

 fixed by the Board or the Committees? Certainly. 



2934. Automatically, as an ordinary arrangement 

 between employer and employees, do they still have 

 a tendency to rise having regard to this latest infor- 

 mation? I should say so; as far as I can learn they 

 have. 



2935. Could you tell us whether anything has 

 occurred to suggest to your mind that the industry 

 as such is being harmed by these wages rising in 

 that way? Not so far, because there has been a 

 great demand for labour even at those high rates. 

 The supply has been small, and the farmers are still 

 getting very high prices for their cereals and cattle, 

 and sto forth. 



2936. You know of no cases where it can be sug- 

 gested that the industry is being harmed by reason 

 of the high rate of wages now being paid? No; I 

 should think there are very few such cases. 



2937. I suppose the fact that they are mutually 

 arranged between employers and workmen is evidence 

 that" the industry can reasonably bear them? No, 

 not necessarily. A man may be compelled to pay 

 higher wages than the industry can bear to get his 

 harvest reaped for instance but I do not think there 

 are many such cases, as a matter of fact. I could 

 well imagine a farmer paying a rate of wages more 

 than his farm could reasonably stand in order to get 

 his corn reaped. 



2938. It is the permanent hands who have also had 

 their wages raised considerably it is not only the 

 extra hands? That is so. 



2939. That is the ordinary arrangement which has 

 lii'i-n come to between employer and workmen? Yes, 

 because of demand and supply. 



2940. No suggestion has come to your notice to the 

 effect that the industry is not able to carry these 

 increased wages? So long as present circumstances 

 continue. 



2941. You know of no instance where such a thing 

 has occurred? No; I know of no instance so far. 



2942. Did the 60 hours that you referred to cover the 

 full hours of the ploughman, or did he have to put 

 any extra hours in beyond that point? In many 

 parts of Scotland besides the 60 hours in the field he 

 had about 7 hours a week in the stable on duty. 



2943. So that it is correct to say apart from a sub- 

 stantial increase in wages there has also been a re- 

 duction in working hours? There has been in the 

 last 3 months. In consequence of those conferences 

 that they have been having there has been a consider- 

 able reduction in hours in many parts of the country, 

 but not all over. 



2944. And those changes have not had any adverse 

 effect on the industry? Not so far. 



2945. Mr. Walker: Can you tell the Commission 

 why you do not accept the same principle in Scotland 

 in fixing rates as we do in England. You are con- 

 versant I take it up to a point with our rates here 



HI 



