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c "\IMls.M.>\ "S Al.KIl I I.TI UK. 



t Auyutt, 



SIK THOMAS H. MIDDLKTHN. K i 



[CtiHliniitil. 



Then 1 should like to see the principle of " abate- 

 mouta " applied to certain other very desirable agri- 

 cultural operations which, if popular, would certainly 

 udd greatly to the national wealth, though they might 

 tail in a considerable percentage of cases to benefit 

 the particular individual executing them. I hare in 

 . iew drainage and liming. These I regard aa the 

 nimlauiuntul methods of improving tillage farming in 

 tliis country, and are especially wanted at thr present 

 time. An abatement from the gross assessable value of 

 a sum equal to twice the actual expenditure would do 

 inn' h to stimulate these practices. The relief should 

 be given to owners and occupiers and in respect of all 

 agricultural land. The point about these two 

 practices is, that there is no question that in certain 

 cases they fail to benefit; they are expensive, and 

 the farmer has got out of the habit of liming. The 

 landowner is doing less draining, for good reasons, 

 than he did in the past. The cost of these processes 

 has gone up enormously as the result of the war. It 

 ainly desirable th'at they .should be stimulated in 

 some way; and I think that by this, or some other 

 method, these two fundamental methods of land im- 

 provement should be singled out for development by 

 the State. There is no question, that, if extensively 

 and widely carried out, the nation would largely 

 benefit from any expenditure which it might have to 

 undertake. 



These are the points to which I want to draw your 

 attention. I would like to say before I close that 

 you will notice that I am a very strong advocate of 

 tillage in the national interest aa compared with 

 grazing. I have not time to develop the arguments 

 here now, but I have developed them in a 

 popular way. in a pamphlet called " Food Production 

 from the Consumer's Standpoint," which is published 

 by the Ministry of Reconstruction, and if members 

 of the Commission are interested in knowing why it 

 is that T advocate tillage so strongly. I would ask 

 them to do me the honour of looking through, at any 

 rate, the summary of that pamphlet. 



Chairman : Thank you very much for your most 

 interesting and instructive statement. The Secre- 

 taries will be asked to obtain copies of the book to 

 which you refer for the information of the members 

 of the Commission, and no doubt they will find it as 

 interesting as you state it to be. I will now ask Mr. 

 Smith to begin the questions. 



3012. Mr. Smith : Do 1 understand the figures you 

 have submitted to ud this morning are not based on 

 any actual balance sheets that you have seen? No, 

 they are not based on actual balance sheets. They are 

 based on balance sheets of actual costs of production 

 in a large number of cases before the war, and are 

 brought up to date by repricing. 



9013. Surely they must be based on something real? 

 I will tell vou how the information was got. In the 

 first place I have myself a pretty extensive knowledge 

 of agricultural costs, and I consulted a great many 

 men who wore in a position to form estimates. I got 

 them to send me estimates of the cost of producing 

 v. heat under various conditions ; and from these 

 estimates, criticising them in detail, I myself formed 

 an estimate so that I might for my own guidance put 

 into figures what my opinions were. I have varied 

 that estimate by the simple process of repricing from 

 time to time. 



3014. Then you have no exact figures of costs based 

 on actual experience in farms? I have no figures in 

 front of me of exact costs; and I do not think that 

 theac figures would be of much value to me unless I 

 were able to average at least TOO, the conditions are 

 to variable. 



3015. And therefore these are estimates of what. 

 the costs might bo? That is so. 



3016. Do you know that in some businesses they 

 take this as a basis, and rely on their << OIKHIIK ^ 

 effected in the working for a profit? Yre, I know 

 that. 



3017. Therefor* there might be economies effected 

 and a net return given to the farmer within them ? 

 The difficulty is that in those businesses to which the 

 cost* of production are applied the great majority 

 of them are carried out under a roof. Farming is 



not carried out under a roof, and we cannot by re- 

 solving to harrow once leas or roll once less in the 

 .season reduce our costs of production. We must 

 average out what is probable on the land and under 

 weather conditions which we must expect. That is a 

 farmer's difficulty in applying costs of production to 

 i emulate his tillage. 



3018. But would it be fair to assume that estimated 

 ( ost would be on a basis that would leave them u 

 margin, that they would rather have a tendency to 

 lie on a high figure than on a low? None of those 

 ;..:-. .us whom 1 consulted in framing this estimate, 

 or at least it must have been very few, were interested 

 in leaving a margin. They we're interested by gel- 

 ting at the facto, and certainly that was my own 

 intention. You will see that the margin I have left 

 for the farmer in this particular case is a wage of 10s. 

 a day for 300 days. 



3019. You spoke of the necessity of rolling onoe or 

 twice. Is it the case that there are occasions where 

 the land is not rolled at all? There may be, many 

 cases. 



. That they are sown and there is nothing 

 more done to them until harvest? I have never seen 

 a field which was sown which had nothing more done 

 to it. At least, if I have seen it, it has been 

 seldom. 



3021. You admit that is possible? It is possible. 

 but riot probable. 



3022. And in that fact there would be great eco- 

 nomies on these costs? You would not get the seed 



% which you sowed ; so the probability would be there 

 would bo bankruptcy. 



3023. If I were to suggest to you that ft harv.M 

 which has just been garnered from a field of that 

 description produced 80 bushels of oats to the acre, 

 what would you say to that? I should say that it 

 is surprising, but I must accept it. 



3024. You have mentioned real bad seasons. What 

 exactly do you mean by that? We get really very 

 bad seasons about three or four times in a century. 

 We get seasons relatively bad, I should say, on an 

 average, once in ten years. They generally come one 

 or two together. 



3025. But is not it a fact that you very rarely 

 have a season which is bad for all crops? That is so, 

 very rarely. 



3026. And that agriculture is an industry which 

 compensates to some extent for some of the difficulties 

 you have to contend with?. The difficulty is this, 

 that generally if it is a bad season for one corn 

 crop, it is bad for all the corn crops ; and the farmer 

 who is mainly a corn grower is hit in that way by 

 the weather to a much greater extent than the farmer 

 who is a mixed farmer. That is one of the strong 

 arguments for mixed farming and for grass framing. 



3027. You suggest to us that the average farmers 

 do not make money. I think you stated generally 

 that he finished up with as much capital as he com- 

 menced with? Yes, and makes his living. 



3028. Have you any further explanation to give 

 of that fact, as "to whether that circumstance could not 

 be altered? You mention in paragraph 10 of yout 

 memorandum that grass land generally is worse 

 farmed than tillage land, and I think you elaborate 

 that by stating that the best use is not made of 

 it P That is RO. 



3029. Would not that nlso apply to tillage as well 

 as grass? That is so. There is no doubt whatever 

 ib:ii there is a great deal of tillage land in this 

 country which is badly farmed. 



3030. And needs more scientific methods of farming? 

 Yes. 



3031. Would you agree that a greater interest in 

 the industry itself by the farmers might produce 



nits? I entirely agree; but then I am 

 dealing with the farmer as an average man, and you 

 must admit that in any large number the average is 

 not always equal to the best. 



3032. Of course, all these things are comparative. 

 but the average position is one that has a tendency 

 towards inefficiency. You would not suggest that w.< 

 should continue on that? T would not like to say 



