134 



UOTAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTUltE. 



19 A*yu*l, 1919.] 



SIR THOMAB H. MIDDLKTON, K.B.E., i .It 





3277. You go on to ritato that the price required 

 > t Uie present time would be about 62s. 6d. ? That 

 is on the Mine basis. If you make A correction on 

 one side, you must correct it on the other. 



3378. So that instead of Is. lid. a quarter, you 

 propose now that it should be 3s. 4d. a quarter) 1 

 Yes, it comes to about 3a. 4d. 



3379. You take the pre-war wage at 18s. per week, 

 and the present wage at 44s. a week. How do you 

 arrive at the figure of 18s. a week pre-war? It was 

 a rough average for the country. I cannot rememl-r 

 now whether it was calculated precisely or not, but 

 I think it was about 18s. 



3980. The cash wages were about 17s. a week pre- 

 war, and the cash allowance* 2H. Would not that be 

 nearer it than 18s. P For the whole country? 



3281. Yes? I do not remember the details of this 

 estimate; I may have them. 



3363. I do not think that is very material now. 

 You take the post-war wages at 44s. P Yes, that was. 

 I think, an average at the time at which it wad taken 

 of the rates being paid. 



3383. I think the figure which has been given us as 

 the average is 42s. 6d.P If the average is not correct 

 then, of course, the figures will have to be changed 

 throughout. 



3284. The effect of changing them would be to 

 reduce the return to the farmer on the pre-war 

 cost and to increase the return on your estimated cost 

 for next year? You must remember that thid 

 estimate is almost exclusively for the Eastern 

 Counties; this estimate has Cambridge, and Essex, 

 and Suffolk in view particularly. 



3285. If that is the case the 42sl. 6d. would be 

 rather high for those counties so that the change of 

 the figures would make the difference even greater? 

 - What is the figure for the horsemen in the Eastern 

 Counties, do you know? 



Mr. JtnlltiJi: The horsemen in Essex are paid the 

 ordinary wage and overtime rates for the extra hours. 



3236. The ChuiriiKiii: Would you kindly revise your 

 figures and let us know if you find occasion to alter 

 them? It only mean* putting in the wages rate and 

 making the corresponding change. 



3387. If you will do that for us it will save ques- 

 tionsi- If I may have your wages rate as agreed I 

 will take them and put them in. 



3288. Mr. Duncan: The figure you arrive at of 60s. 

 i* a figure that has been very commonly given to 

 us. I want to know where tnat figure of 60s. has 

 been worked out on some such actual estinia: 

 you are giving here, or whether it was simply a rough 

 figure arrived at from claims made by farmers? I 

 cannot say where you have got your 60s. from, but 

 I made a similar estimate to this some little time ago, 

 and the figures came out very nearly the sai 

 those here, and I have myself for some time had the 

 figure of 80s. in view. I can only answer for my- 

 self. 



3289. Previous witnesses from your Department 

 have given us a figure of 60s. Might I ask whether 

 you hare considered it in your Department, and 

 whether 60s. was the figure that members of your De- 

 partment had in mind? I have not considered it 

 with my official colleagues. I asked Mr. Strutt what 

 figure was in his mind, and I think the answer was 

 that in his view it was about COM., and that I said: 

 " That is the same as mine." That is about ;i|| the 

 consultation that has taken place with regard to it. 



3290. You state in paragraph 15 that high wages 

 are likely to increase the demand for small holdings. 

 Have von ever worked out the relation between tin- 

 number of applications for small holdings in the 

 different counties to find out how they compare with 

 the wage rates P Mr. Ashby has done that in his 

 book, and he nhows the position. He shows that with 

 low wages, ns in Cambridgeshire. \n\i get ;i higher 

 niiinW of applications than you do in high-wage 

 counties such as Northumberland. But my point i 



that that refers to a past scale, of wages, and I think 

 that upon the present scale there is a bigger inaigm 

 for saving cash than there was previously, and that 

 that saving will bo made by a certain number of men 

 nli a view of taking up land. 



.i.vl. If I put it to you that the same is true of 

 Scotland, that you have by far the larger number of 

 applications from the lower-paid counties, and that 

 you have practically a dearth of applications from the 

 higher-paid counties, would that not show that high 

 wages are not an incentive to small holdings? I 

 agree with you that in the past they have not been. 



3292. Coming to your theoretical argument, you 

 base your belief upon the assumption that a workman 

 has a bigger margin now and can save money out of 

 his wages for the purpose of going in for a small hold- 

 ing. What would you reckon would be the amount 

 of capital that a workman would require to amass if he 

 were to take up a 50-acre holding, which you said 

 would be a desirable size? At the present time u 

 workman going into a holding would need from 1- to 

 15 per acre capital. 



3293. Taking it on your lowest figure, 12 per acre 

 would mean that he would require to have 600? 

 Yes. 



3294. Assuming that wages are stabilised at your 

 figure of 44s., and that the workman was to work half 

 his working life as a workman, he would have to save 

 this 600 roughly in 25 years? Yes, that is so. 



3295. That would mean that he would have to save 

 at the rate of 24 a year? Yes. 



3296. Do you think with a wage of 114, with the 

 cost of living such as it is just now, that there is a 

 margin of 24 that the workman can save? Looking 

 at it on the surface, the answer would be No, but in 

 fact one does know that workmen do contrive to save. 

 It is astonishing the number of men with the very low 

 wages which have been available in the past who have 

 contrived to save money and get on to laud. 



3297. Are you not always thinking of a standard of 

 living and a condition of rural life from which we 

 have departed now? In the days you are referring to 

 rural life was a much more frugal and self-contained 

 matter than it is to-day? My view is this, that rural 

 life was very much more frugal than it is to-day, but 

 it will have to become frugal again. We will all have 

 to become frugal, not this year perhaps or next, but it 

 will come. 



3298. You made the statement that in your opinion 

 there was not likely to be any shortage of labour. 

 What were you basing that opinion upon;' 1 think it 

 likely that a great majority of the people who left 

 agriculture for the war will return to it ultimately, 

 and that a considerable number will come from out- 

 side. 



3299. On what do you base that opinion:'- -Only on 

 the general information that one collects in discussing 

 the subject with one's acquaintances. I have not gone 

 fully into the question although 1 think 1 .statc.1 

 Minien-hat definitely that it was my judgment of tho 

 future supply of labour. 



3300. If 1 put it to you that in the district*! of the 

 United Kingdom where the highest wages are paid the 

 shortage of labour to-day is more acute than at any 

 period during the war would that la. i not MM-III to run 

 counter to your opinion': 1 - It would if it wore not 

 accompanied by other fact*. I made an estimate of 

 the amount of lahour needed by the British farmer 

 about the beginning of January of this year. I found 

 that he had 33 per cent, man work to do than he 

 would have to do in a normal season before the war. 

 We have had a most trying season this year, and I 

 think that has accentuated the apparent lal-our 

 scarcity. 



3301. My statement is not that there is a labour 

 shortage compared with the demand hut that then- 

 is an actual shortage of persons compared with the 

 iniT!,lx-r in pre-war tinn-s. ami that even in the In 

 pai.l districts there is a shortage compa red with the 



conditions which prevailed during pre-war 

 linns:' 1 was not aware of this. 



