MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



155 



20 August, 1919.] 



MR. CASTELL WREY. 



[Continued. 



position to know that the farmer has nothing to sell 

 off the farm and that he practically goes to see his 

 pals. This is not inducive to hard work on the farm, 

 as even the worker mouse will play when the farmer 

 is away. It is considered that if the farmer could 

 obviously make money when absent so much from the 

 farm, evidenced by the expenditure on petrol and 

 in many cases on a chauffeur's wages as well, the 

 worker was entitled to share more fully with the 

 farmer in the good things of the world." I had 

 thought of that point. 



3876. So that it is your emphatic and considered 

 opinion that labour has deteriorated? Certainly. 



3877. Wilfully ? Wilfully. 



3878. Can you give us any concrete examples? 

 Thousands of small ones. 



3879. I ask you, can you give us any; I would like 

 to hear them? Of what sort? 



3880. Such as you have instanced now? I had a 

 case only last week when I started thrashing oats 

 direct from the farm. Two of my men wanted to go 

 off to play in a cricket match, and they went. They 

 gave me no notice, and I had to stop, and the whole 

 of my gang was upset. That is what I call wilfully 

 stopping work. 



3881. But that, I submit, would not be wilful 

 deterioration so far as their actual labour when they 

 are at work is concerned? And also when they are 

 at work, with the exception of a few old honest 

 men, I can prove from my wages sheets that the 

 amount of work is not done that was done formerly. 

 It takes longer to hoe a field, stook a field, or any 

 other operation, than it used to. 



3882. What are the extraordinary conditions ap- 

 plied to agriculture by the Wages Board to which 

 you refer here? Not having any knowledge of the 

 inner workings of the Wages Board, it appears to an 

 outsider liko myself as if the industry of agriculture 

 has been treated by the Wages Board as if it were 

 under a glass roof. No allowance appears to have 

 been made for dew, sunshine or cloud, wet days or 

 tin--, and it appears to me that it is a distinct 

 hindrance to output of work that a man of 30 to 45 

 years of ago who is thoroughly skilled and possibly 

 the father of three or four children should have to 

 work for the same wages as an unskilled and not 

 fully developed youth of 21, as it naturally tends to 

 make a skilled man sore that he should be treated 

 on the same level as the unskilled youth, and thereby 

 redneat his output of labour, and ho works down to 

 the level of the unskilled man instead of the un- 



:illed man working up to the level of the skilled 

 It is quite impossible to encourage really 

 skill. -d men with an increase in wages, as immediately 

 the bad and unskilled ones want equality of wages, 

 and it is impossible to pay more than we are at 

 present paying for unskilled labour. 



3883. You have no knowledge of the inner working 

 of the Wages Board ? No. 



I nm quite certain of that. Are you aware 

 that tho wages fixed by the Wages Board are mini- 

 mum rates? Yes. 



3883. And you would be quite at liberty to give to 

 the men whom you have been referring to a higher 

 rate if you so desired for greater skill ? Yes. 

 3886. You can do that? Yes. 

 887. -^ that you would not be penalising the 

 M you. suggested just now? Yes, I should 

 MMOM immediately I give it to the good men, the 

 d men want it as well, and if I did not give it to 

 them, tlioy would leave. 



It it not a fact that what you are really 

 iftor is for making the minimum the maximum? 

 rtamly not. I am all in favour of encouraging 

 good labour. 



Von have the opportunity now. All the 



Board has done is to fix minimum rates. 



me: I have had practical experience If I 



use the wages of a good labourer, the bad labourer 



nmediateiy wants the same wage, and if I do not 



K'vp it to him, he leaves me, and I cannot afford to 



lose him. 



3890. Is that the only complaint you have against 

 the Wages Board? I have also the complaint that 



they lessen the hours and make the overtime exces- 

 sive. They treat us as if we were under a glass roof 

 instead of being in the open air. 



3891. Can you tell- the Commission whether you 

 know of any industry where good wages and good 

 conditions prevail and have prevailed that has suf- 

 fered in any way as a result of those good wages and 

 good conditions? I am afraid I do not know enough 

 about other industries to criticise them. 



3892. Your experience does not extend beyond agri- 

 culture ? No. 



3893. And that is the only complaint you have 

 against 'the Wages Board, so far as you are con- 

 cerned? That is the only complaint I have against 

 the Wages Board, and it is a most serious complaint. 



3894. And you do not know of any other industry 

 that has suffered as the result of good wages and 

 good conditions? No, I do not, because I do not 

 know of any other industry. 



3895. 31 r. Smith : May we take it from your an- 

 swers that you think better results can be obtained 

 from the industry by better organisation? Yes. 



3896. And that is an obligation that should fall 

 upon the farmer? Or on the State, I think. 



3897. Or on the State ? Possibly. 



3898. To organise the industry on a farm? To 

 educate the farmer how to use his implements, etc., 

 to the best effect. 



3899. Yes; but the organisation of the farm work 

 would that be a matter for the farmer or whoever 

 was acting for him as a steward or bailiff? Yes; by 

 means of education he would get it into his head 

 and he would do it, I think. 



3900. AVould you agree that in order to get proper 

 results from the industry there must be effective 

 organisation of farm work? Hardly that. I do not 

 see how you can organise the whole farm work, 

 because the farms vary so much in the quality of 

 land they are dealing with. It is impossible to put 

 them all in a bag and say: You must do this. You 

 must treat each farm on its individual merits. 



3901. You are rather strong in your opinions re- 

 garding the character of the labourer. How long 



have you held this opinion as to his deterioration? 



Certainly since the war started since labour began 

 to be scarce. 



3902. Do you think it is a fair test to apply to a 

 worker the experience of war conditions? Yes. It 

 is the test of the men who went out and fought to 

 keep him where he was. They went through a much 

 more severe test. 



3903. Do not you think that the war period has 

 been tho means of unsettling all sections of the 

 population workers as well as others? Yes, 

 certainly. 



3904. And that the strain of the war period must 

 be reflected in their work and life? Hardly with tho 

 agricultural labourer, because I do not think he knew 

 enough about the war. 



3905. You do not suggest, do you, that a man who 

 had sons over there, because he was an agricultural 

 labourer, had less anxiety than others had? I know 

 of one case where they certainly had. 



3906. They had no anxiety no anxiety for their 

 relatives or their sons? None whatever, in one case. 



3907. AVould you say that is general in the case o* 

 the agricultural labourer? I do not think it is, I am 

 glad to say. 



3908. Is it not rather unfair to take one case to 

 illustrate the position ? You asked me if I knew and 

 I said yes. 



3909., But you only knew one case? Only one 

 case, but there is more callousness, I think, amongst 

 that class than any other. They do not read the 

 papers ; they cannot pronounce the names if they do 

 read them. 



3910. Is it not the fact that nil people who have 

 studied this question have come to the conclusion 

 that the minds of all sections of the people have been 

 disturbed as the result of the war conditions in a 

 manner that has not permitted of the same effort that 



