MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



157 



20 Auffusf, 1919.] 



MR. CASTELL WREY. 



[Continued. 



drafted into the Army at 18 has caused them to lose 

 interest ? Interest in their work: 1 



3954. Yes? No, I do not think so rather the other 

 way I should say. 



3955. Then I suggest to you that agriculture has 

 had a different experience from what most other 



' industries have ? From what I have seen, most of the 

 agricultural labourers tried to he as good as they 

 could on the farms so as to get exemption from the 

 Army. 



3956. Does not that rather destroy your contention 

 of the indifference and the callousness? That is 

 rather an opposite view, is it not? It was studiedly 

 done, I believe, to keep out of the Army. 



3957. They took more interest in their work and 

 worked together, whereby their services would become 

 more indispensable? Yes, so as to keep out of the 

 Army. 



3958. That is rather a contrary view to what you 

 have stated here and what you stated previously in 

 your verbal evidence? I do not think so. 



3959. How can you have callousness and indifference 

 and at the same time have application to their work 

 to make themselves more efficient? You see the war 

 has been over since November, and I have seen it 

 more apparent since the Armistice than at any other 

 time. I certainly think that the majority of the 

 work that the young fellows did do was done with the 

 object of keeping out of the Army more than study- 

 ing the farmers' interests or earning their money. 



3960. You really think that you are capable I do 

 not mean in an offensive way but you have the op- 

 portunity of really judging why young men were in- 

 efficient in their work? Yes, I think I have. I have 

 seen a great deal of labour all over the county of 

 Northampton in the last four years. 



3961. Have your older men deteriorated? Yes, 

 with one or two exceptions. I have some of the older 

 men who have been more than invaluable to me ; every 

 praise is due to them. 



3962. Therefore, in their case it would not be 

 because they desired to keep out of the Army? No; 

 it was simply the way they have been brought up to 

 work hard and to look after their master's interests, 

 and they have continued to do it. I am most grateful 

 to them. 



3963. Do you think it is in the interests of the in- 

 dustry to have more extended education in the schools 

 and the days following what is considered to be school 

 life? Yes, certainly. 



3964. You would agree that it is desirable to have 

 as good an educated working population as it is pos- 

 sible to have? Yes. 



3965. Is there any other thing you know of that 

 acts as a handicap to the industry in its development? 

 I think education for the farmer and the labourer is 

 very, very wanting. 



3966. And you would agree, so far as the education 

 standpoint is concerned, the difficulty is as great with 

 the farmer as with the labourer? Yes, I think so, 

 with certain exceptions. 



3967. Would the difficulty be greater on one side 

 than on the other, think you? No; it is quite pos- 

 sible that the labourer and the young farmer might go 

 to the same school and learn the same train of 

 thought. 



3968. I suppose you would agree that if the farmer 

 was not well educated and did not well understand 

 his work if he did not understand up-to-date 

 methods you could not expect the worker on the farm 

 to develop on the best lines? I do not think you 

 could. 



3969. To get the best results, one of the essentials 

 is that the head should well understand his business? 

 Yes, it is moat important. 



3970. If he did not, however well the labourer might 

 be educated, the best results would not be obtained? 

 I do not think they would. 



3971 . Could you tell us whether in your experience 

 the lack of adequate transport has added any difficulty 

 to the industry? Transport does not enter much in 

 the farmer's life, I think. We deliver our wheat on 



rail, and if there is not a truck we grumblej if we have 

 to take our cart there. Once it is on the rail we hear 

 no more about it. 



3972. Is your farm fairly well situated so far a 

 railway service is concerned? One end is very well 

 situated ; the other is not. 



3973. Is it your opinion that the interest of the 

 industry could be better served with greater facilities 

 for transport? I have read a good deal about it. It 

 always appears to me that these foreign goods come 

 in here at a marvellously low rate and compete with 

 our goods upon which the rates are excessive, but I 

 have hardly studied the question, and I am not pre- 

 pared to give evidence upon it. 



3974. Apart from the question of the rates of 

 freightage, I am now looking at this question from 

 the point of view of getting stuff to and from the 

 farm. If you have long haulage to a station, it would 

 be more expensive than if you had a station close to? 

 Naturally. 



3975. Is it your experience that the industry could 

 be helped by better facilities for rail transport? It is 

 a point I have hardly thought about, so far as small 

 farms go. I think it would be very hard to organise 

 it. On a large farm like this, of course we ought to 

 have our own tractors or our own motor-lorries, or 

 something. We have not got them; we ought to have 

 them. 



3976. Mr. Bobbins : Have you any suggestions to 

 make to us which might help us in making recom- 

 mendations to the Government as to how best to 

 secure the favourable economic prospects of the 

 industry? I think a great deal may be done by adver- 

 tisement. 



3977. By advertisement? Yes. I have some figures 

 here if you would be patient enough to listen to them, 

 an the question of sulphate of ammonia. The Board 

 of Agriculture extensively advertised and recom- 

 mended the use of sulphate of ammonia during the 

 war, and I am indebted to the managers of the gas- 

 works at Peterborough, Reading and Nottingham for 

 the following figures and facts. Peterborough formerly 

 sold the bulk of their output to shipping agents, but 

 since 1916 have sold the whole for home consumption. 

 In 1916 they sold 110 tons, in 1917 they sold 92 tons, 

 in 1918 they sold 56 tons, and up to date in 1919 

 they have sold 51 tons. I telephoned the manager and 

 asked him how he accounted for the decrease, oecause 

 I thought there was a very large increase, and he 

 answered back that the decrease was entirely due to 

 the quality of the coal they had been receiving ; also 

 that the labour difficulties have been great, and they 

 have not been able to turn out as much as they would 

 have liked to. They could have sold much more if 

 they had had it. The figures for Reading are in 1913, 

 55 tons; in 1914, 252 tons. 1913 was pre-war, and it 

 was hardly used by the farmers in those days. In 

 1915 it was 335 tons; 1916, 285 tons; 1917, 488 tons- 

 and 1918, 468 tons. 



3978. Mr. Ashby. For home consumption ?_ All for 

 home consumption. The figures for Nottingham are 

 in 1913 they sold 185 tons; in 1914, 156 tons; in 1915, 

 201 tons; in 1916, when the Board started advertising, 

 they sold 843 tons; in 1917 they sold 501 tons; and 

 in 1918, 1,311 tons; all for home consumption. But 

 this year they have exported over 2,000 tons. 



3979. Mr. Bobbins: One of your suggestions is to 

 have a more efficient intelligence department of the 

 Board of Agriculture? Certainly. 



3980. Have you any other suggestion to make?-^- 

 That is merely an example, and there are a great 

 many other themes and theories that the Board might 

 take up and advertise extensively as they did with 

 that. The cost of advertising must have been trivial, 

 and there is no doubt that the gasworks helped to 

 pay for the advertising; it was a by-product. It 

 was good for the nation, and there ought to be no 

 export of it until the farmers have got all they want. 



981. Are you in favour of the Government 

 guarantee for the price of cereals? As long as thev 

 guarantee a minimum wage, we ought to have a 

 guarantee that wo shall not lose by growing corn for 

 the nation. 



3982. I have not seen the balance sheets which I 

 understand you have put in. 



