160 



KOYAL CUMMl>M"S "N At. UK T I. Tl KK. 



. 1 .'!'. .; 



MK. 



. \Vi:i * 





4088. Have you actually put tlmt prohibition ! 

 thcmi' I hae put tin- liu-I to tin-Ill like tin-: \nu 

 You now get Ms. (id. You u-cd to In- 

 paid o much lor liny, or whatever it is. I :IIH pic 

 I in red to pay you go much, which is the exact propm 



t,,,n , pared with th- Klines you used to get :ili<l 



ill. wages you lire netting to-day. Are yon Killing 

 to \\oik (or tlmt".- and they say: Ni. they will 

 not. Thev give no reason. 



ln.t'.l Th;:l indicate--. I under -land, thai ili.-i. i- 

 a dimim-hed willingm tn work |iiii-e work: > 



lain, lint you have not actually put it it: them: " I 

 will offer you piece rates proportionate to those which 

 1 offered to you in the past, ami at the same tiin. 

 will IN- guaranteed your minimum time rate for the 

 week you are on pine work."- I would not test them 

 with that. They would work for the minimum t me 



1011. In other word-, the piece work rate would he 

 inoperative:- Yes. I will give you an example, 

 have -heavi- carriei- attached to all my binders. I 

 dump the sheaves in straight lines all down the field 

 either in fours or fives according to the crop, and the 

 men have to stook them : that is to say. set them up. 

 In the old days when they had not sheave carrier-, each 

 shenf feU out of the machine as it went on and the 

 man had to pick one here and one there and stock 

 them. Now he has them put in absolutely straight in 

 a line: hut they will not work unless I pay them the 

 name piece rate' that they used to get when they had 

 to walk 10 or I") yards every timo to make n stool;. 

 The work is simplified and they do a great deal less 

 than they used to do; but they will not work unless I 

 give them the old rate, which I will not do. 



Kill'. l)o not you think that i- po ibly a form oi 

 con-erratiHiii on the part of the labourer, just as you 

 have spoken of conservatism on the part of the farme--;- 

 It has certainly been my experience that the men want 

 to combine the advantage* of the new conditions with 

 the advantages of the old and do not realise the 

 changes:- There is a great (leal ill that combined with 

 want ot education. Tf they would think it out. the 

 piece rates I have offered them are far better than 

 they used to g 



1 So that you think that with better education 

 this reluctance to do piece work might disappear: I 

 think a good deal of it might. 



Mil. You spoke just now of the difficulty you had 

 with regard to the Saturday half holiday and their 

 desiring to play rricket as they did last week. Would 

 \ou aurce that that difficulty is practically limited to 

 hay time and harvest:- Ye--, h,-, ;.u-e we never woik 

 Saturday* if we ran help it. 



Illl'i. How many men do you employ on your farm'- 



in the outbreak of war we had 104 skilled men and 

 hoys; and I have to-day. I think it is. .V- men. women 

 and German prisoners. 



Kilt;. I <|ilite appreciate what you -aid to Mr. 

 Walker and Mr. Smith about the difficulty of going 

 round the farm and telling cvcryliodv that you are 

 going to work on Saturday afternoon, but do you ever 

 have general consultations with your men- As you 

 know, under the Whitlev Report there have been 

 strong recommendation! that employer- and workmen 

 should consult together more about the management 

 of the industry. Do you ever have consultation t..i 

 pie. on this point, us to whether the Satiinlav 

 half holiday should be super-cded during bay time and 

 harvest- The Wages Hoard said we should have a 

 holiday, and I am in favour of it. and I always give it 

 if possible; but I do not think the Lord gave us i rops 

 to fool away, and if it i* a good day on tin- Satin- 

 day we ought to work. We see them through in tin- 

 wet weather and in the winter: they ought to see us 

 through in fine weather. 



KII7. Do not you think the difficulty might be - t 

 over if emploMi- consulting with their men. came to 

 an Understanding that wherca- dunlin normal times 

 of the year the understood thing would !M> a Saturdav 

 half holiday, and it would require special arrangements 

 to continue work, during weeks of hay time and 

 harvest tlie understood thing would be work on Satin 

 day iinle-s notice was sent round that the weather or 

 other conditions had altered'- I find the older men 

 \\fan realise the responsibility of getting the crop in 



,1., not run ell in tin- fa-hion; it is only the younger 

 fellows. 



llllv Hul i- not it also that MOM ol "s rl 

 younger have more interest in cricket and reeieatioiir 

 ,,-ally. I lik.' to see them play rrickct on the 

 Saturday, H we toilld only get them to work the other 

 Ine day- 1 am all in favour of sport and reere.iti.m 

 and giving them as much time as possible; but. con- 

 sidering that we keep them going all winter during 

 the bad weather and find them a job. they ought to 

 buckle to and give Us the best ot their help in th.- 

 summer, but we do not get it. 



4049. You do not think, with regard to this matter 

 of bay time and harve-t. it would U> possible to arriv- 

 al a 'better under-landing iu future by consultation - 

 jet on with the older men. It is only 

 the young fellows. I do consult the men on any 

 change of wages, or anything of that sort. I call the 

 carters together and tell them what I want. Then 

 1 get the stock men together and talk it over with 

 them. 1 have had no trouble with that class of men 

 nt all. It is only the- youths. 



IO.VI. Hut you have' not bad any consultation 

 about the ou^stion of Saturdays and hay tune and 

 harvest? No. because up to now they have always 

 worked. 



II >">1. Then this has only been an isolated uist.i 

 It has only been an isolated instance: but 1 do not 

 want it again if 1 can help it. 



10-VJ. You think possibly consultation might help, 

 towards some understanding which would obviate 

 that difficulty in the tut lire: Ye-. I hop, 



-Id.").'). Mi. l.niiiifnril : You have had great advan- 

 tages in education and in the study of agricultural 

 subject |f > . I have. 



IH'il I think you would agree that the- average 

 tanner could not possibly have had the advantages 

 that yon have had:- --No. they ha\e not. 



lli.V>. Then you would agree with me that if some 

 farmers do not understand their business c|tiiic as 

 well as they should, it is really not theii own fault? 

 I think, considering that their capital is employed in 

 agriculture, they ought to make more effort to educate 



tnemsetrst 



ID'ii. Quite; but until quite recently there have 

 been very few schools to which farmers could even 

 send their sons to get practical agricultural scientific- 

 knowledge:' That is very true. 



ln")7. Would you agree with me that in Scotland th" 

 t.uiners' sons have- greater advantages educationally 

 than the farmers' sons and labourers' -mi- have- in 

 Kngland? Yes. I think they have. 



4058. Then you would support the- Hoard ot Agricul- 

 ture if they decided to institute' better faciliti- 

 the' technical teaching of those- engaged in agricul- 

 ture:' Certainly. 



|ir,v. I do not want to misquote you. but I think 

 \.iii said just now, as T understood it, that until thiee 

 years ago you made- no profits? Tut il four years ago. 



4lKl. Ill 1VIH you made a loss ,,f C1.470? I w..- 

 nof then nager of the farm; I only took over in 



1916. 



KKil. In 1914 there was a loss of ' Ye*. 



I'liiiirmtiii : 1 will read the- figure* from your balance 



sheet. For tin- year I ! I) .'i the l.'.ss was C|.'l7ll Ilk. Id. : 



for the year lOl'l the loss wa- c'J.^7"i :s. _',!.; for the 

 year 1!H"> the profit was Cl..'tSP (Is. :td. : tor the- year 

 'liMti the profit was I'M. Mm IN. lid.; lor I!H7 the profit 

 w.is i:i.7!Hl l-Js. Id.; and tor I!IM the profit was 

 L-J.:t7.'. IV-. lid All those yearn end on the- (ith April 

 of each year. 



Mr. Liimiliiiil : I think it is very unfortunate that 

 we have' not had an opportunity of studying (he- 

 figures: because this is the- first witness who has put 

 in balance sheet-, and if we had had two or three 

 hours to study the figures the evidence would have 

 hem of much more mate-rial value-. 



I'hiiiriiKin : If yon like, you can re<*ll the witnr 

 ii later date. 



I// liiitilnlitt : Mie_ht I suggest that prolmhlv it 

 would be for the benefit of the- Commission and its 

 work if that were to be done, and probably the 



