UOYAl. C 



OS -\.i;li I I.Tl KI.. 



Auyuil, 1919.] 



MR. CASTKI.L WHEY. 





I-.'AI. Would you in in J telliug u xxhat sort of labour 

 \ou were working with abroad. - All sorts. 



l.V.l. .Niggers! 1 If you like to call th.-n. niggers, 



but they were prim ipally half-bred Italians and 



Spaniard*. Most of our labourers canie simply lor the 



-t, and went back again; they were employ nl 



on piece-work. 



(Jo-. You did not get your ideas of treating labour 

 from your contact with treating niggers and hall 

 castes, and all these people, 1 hopeP 1 do not umU-i 

 stand that question. 



>. Would the inc.lu -iem -\. ami th- lack of in: 

 in these people you have been speaking of abroad 

 rather prejudice you in your outlook towards British 

 labour:- 1 did not say thai they showed inefficiency 

 or lack of interest in their xxork. Tin- labourer <mi 

 there, as .long as you made it worth his while* from 

 the point i iiione\, was the best labourer on 



earth, and 1 do not think the British labourer would 

 on piece-work for any money if you offered it to 

 him. They will not take on piece-work, whereas the 

 whole of our harvest out there was done piece-work, 

 and I have actually had men growling at me on a 

 damp morning because I would not blow the whittle 

 to enable them to start threshing. As against that, 

 in my opinion the English labourer the longer he 

 r.niains idle the better he is pleased. 



l-.")l. Would you believe that men with life long 

 experience of agricultural labourers, such as the Hon. 

 E. U. Strutt, take absolutely the opposite point of 

 view from that which you take with regard to English 

 agricultural labour;" People are bound to take 

 different opinions. If we all liked the same girl where 

 should we be? 



IL'.'W. We have had the Hon. E. G. Strutt here 

 giving evidence before this Commission, a man who 

 has been engaged in farming for 40 or 50 years, one 

 of the greatest of our experts, and who has nothing 

 but praise for the English agricultural labourer. How 

 do you come to differ so profoundly from an attitude 

 like thalr One point is, you are putting words into 

 my mouth which I have not used. I have said what 

 1 could to the advantage of the older men. I have the 

 greatest rc.-pec l fur them, and gratitude to them for 

 the wa\ ihe\ have v. orkod during the last three or 

 four years, but as regards the young men 1 cannot 

 enough against them ; I say they wilfully will not 

 work. 



Those are your words, and I say they are 

 very serious. 1 am not going to say they aiv untrue, 

 but I think they U*. May I ask you xxhether you 

 arc expressing your own individual opinion, or 

 \\hether you are also expressing the opinions of those 

 who employ your Does Major Brassey hold the same 

 opinion of the Knglish agricultural labourer as you 

 do? If you had read my precis you would have seen 

 ih.it I sa'y I am prepared to submit evidence from my 

 ow n experience. 



1. Are your employers of the same opinion as 

 \ourself? I am not prepared to give an answer to 

 that question. 



4258. This opinion of yours is formed from a close 

 observation of the agricultural labourer, is itP Ye.*. 



4269. You lime Keen manager of this farm > 

 W15? Yes. 



4260. You hav< b.cn there all the time? All the 

 time'. 



that you also haxc shared the lack of 

 niixicty and freedom from the worr\ of participating 

 practically in the war, like the agricultural labourers 

 you have mentioned: Yee. 



4262. Are you a member of the National Farmers' 

 Union? No, they wiU not have me. 



-'- With regard to the question of the guarai 

 price, and the minimum rate of wages, you said that 

 if wo have a minimum wa; ust also have a 



guaranteed price or words to that effect? Yes. 



4264. Why "must"? Is it r.-nlly essential there 

 should be any conn.-. iin In i -A e, n the two!- 1 It comes 

 to this: would \on work if you did nut eel a salary. 

 and why should a farmer farm if he docs not make 

 a profit? 



That is not quite the answer. Farmers have 

 .naking profits in the past without being guaran- 

 ., . ,1 prices, From 1876 to 1895 I should think very 

 lew farmers in this country made a profit. 



4266. From 1875 to 1915 they had no guaranteed 



Would you he surprised to learn thai there 

 are quite a number of trades and industries in the 

 country which have legal minimum wages fixed by 

 law, and no guaranteed price for the product they 

 turn out? 1 think Mr. Leonard put that question to 

 me tins morning. 



The Chairman: Yes, and the witness answered it 

 by saying that a bootmaker would not make boots 

 unless he was certain of being able to sell them that 

 he did not require a nun use ho simply would 



not make the boots if ho could not sell tluin. 



4267. Mr. Dallas: Mr. Wrey is a very intelligent 

 witness ? I am afraid you are flattering me. 



. But 1 do not think manufacturers manulac 

 ture any commodity just because they have an order 

 to manufacture. It is a fact, is it not, that there are 

 many trades in the countrv which have, by law, a 

 legal minimum wage imposed upon them, anil \ct they 

 :io guarantee with regard to the prices of their 

 commodities? You cannot compare the two. 'Jake 

 any trade you like, hot us stick to boote ; they are 

 working under a roof the whole time, and it docs not 

 matter what the climate, or the conditions are, or 

 what the temperature is. whereas every one of these 

 elements are of the most vital importance to the agri- 

 culturalist. For example, 1 planned my farm last 

 on the most economical plan that I could devise. I 

 arranged for 36 acres of fallow out of 2,850. As a 

 matter of fact I got 303 acres because the weather 

 interrupted, and I have not been able to sow the land. 

 You cannot put a bicycle or a boot in comparison w ith 

 crops. 



4269. No, and I do not wish to compare .them, and 

 1 am not comparing them in the way that y. 



pare them. I only draw attention to the hut that 

 there are many industries that must pay. and are 

 under penalties if they do not pay. a legal minimum 

 wage, and yet have no guarantee with regard to prierr 

 v know what their profit is going to 

 be before they start to manufacture, otherwise they 

 shut their business down. 



4270. No, I do not agree with you, they are just 

 as much, and in some eases mi. re liable to the fluctua- 

 tions of tho market than agriculturists would ber 

 They would allow for that in (be costing. 



1-71. Supposing n legal minimum wage continues 

 in the case of agriculture, and no guaranti- 

 by law. what do you think the ell'ect will her I think 

 that most arable land would rexert to grass at once. 



4272. Jn spile of the fact that the guarai 

 by law have never \< I c .,,,,, m ,,, because. 



the market price has been so much greater, and even 

 the controlled price has been very much lower than 

 the prices that have been ruling, 'and thai are likely 

 to continue in the future? Jf you continue the con- 

 trolled price and the guarantee, the minimum wage 

 xvill not affect us very much. 



427,'i. Supposing there is no controlled price, but 

 that ow ing to the xvorld shortage of food stuffs xvc fixed 

 .1 minimum guarantee at (>n ntiooed tlu> 



morning -I am not n spoiuihle for the figure and tin- 

 world pri M. 70i. OF 90 still think 

 that land would go ibiv, n to gra-sr I have not studied 

 the question carefully enough, and I should like to 

 have more chance of thinking it over bel< 



if, roughly speaking, fi. MM I have 



had I think that with (His. minimum, and an open 



market for (he farmer, a good deal of land would ic 

 main under the plough. 



4274. A i ,re that it i- the i uslom both for 



:.d Kmpheii r>' Association* in iip]K>int- 

 ing their nflii inls not to select a person who is skilled 

 in their particular trader 1 xvas not aware of it. 



ke the National Farmers' 



I'nion. The (ieiirral Sicr.-'ary of the National 

 Kanmr-' 1'nir.i. . , Pent fellow is a barr. 



ami not a farm 



l:.'7i. Therefore, if the Farm l,ab inrej's' Vnion In 

 any particular pln< e sole, l .o.niebodx who Wi 

 agricultural labourer they would be doing nothing 



than nn* done I.;, the employers in H 

 (heir organisation ? - Yc<, but pcrh'aps in the <;> 



