MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



183 



20 August, 1919.] 



MR. L. N. GOOUINO. 



[Continued. 



4738. If there have been abnormal profits is it 

 not right to assume that some of those profits should 

 be looked upon as a reserve fund to be used in the 

 next few years in putting the land back into condi- 

 tion P I am not prepared to admit that there have 

 been abnormal profits during the past few years. If 

 it is the wish of the Commission I will produce figures 

 at a later date showing the financial results of 

 farming during the last few years. At present I am 

 asked to produce figures showing the cost of produc- 

 tion and not the financial results of farming at all. 



4739. The Chairman: Will you kindly send us the 

 financial results or if you prefer it would you like 

 to come up here again at a later date and explain them 

 to us? I- should be very pleased to do that, but it 

 will take a few weeks to get them in order,_and also 

 to get some further returns, as you must hare a cer- 

 tain number. It would be very misleading to give 

 you the returns in the case of only four or five 

 farms. 



4740. Mr. Smith : Will those returns be on actual 

 balance sheets showing expenditure and income? 

 Certainly. 1 should not produce anything else. 



4741. You are not prepared to express an opinion 

 as to whether there should be a guaranteed price or 

 not? No. 



4742. In your experience in connection with farm 

 ing, have you formed any opinion as to what might be 

 done to improve the industry and the conditions so 

 as to get better results? The main point at present 

 is that there must be increased production there is 

 no doubt whatever about that and that increased 

 production must come from the labourer. At the 

 present time he does less than he did in the same 

 time before the war. I was only speaking the other 

 day to a gentleman who farms in Norfolk this is a 

 typical case. He told me that he employs at the 

 present time 16 men and 5 boys to do the same work 

 on his farm to-day as was previously done by 14 men 

 and 3 boys. That is a very serious question. The 

 work a man does to day in one hour is not so much 

 as he did in one hour before the war ; there is no 

 doubt about that. 



4743. .To make the proper comparison there, every- 

 thing would have to be equal, would it not? I do not 

 quite see the point. 



4744. If you want to make a comparison between 

 to-day and, say, four or five years ago, all the things 

 to be compared require to be equal if you want to 

 make a proper comparison? I have made a com- 

 parison with the wages, if that is what you are driving 

 at. 



4746. Do yon consider that the labour to-day is 

 exactly comparable with what it was four or five 

 years ago? Is there any substitute labour being used 

 to-day, for example? We have got the men back who 

 were there before the war largely ; they are mostly 

 the same men now. 



4746. Do you think they have been back long enough 

 to allow a proper comparison to be made? I think 

 so, yes. 



4747. Would any of these men you are referring to 

 be returned soldiers who have been wounded? Not 

 anyone who has been seriously wounded. I am speak 

 ing of the general labourers on the farm. Some of 

 them would be returned soldiers, but not men who have 

 been wounded. The men who have been wounded are 

 still unable to work most of them. 



4748. A good many of them would be returned 

 soldiers? Not a very large percentage. 



4749. A great many men went off the farms, did 

 they not? Yes, but not so many in my district as 

 in others because as it happened there were more of 

 thorn older men not so many of them came under 

 the Act, because of their age. 



47/50. There was a great deal of complaint at the 

 time about the number of men that were being taken 

 from the farms? Yes, and in my own particular case 

 we lost 20 or 25 of them. 



4751. Would you agree that it would be a natural 

 condition arising out of the war that returned men 

 would take a certain amount of time before they 

 nettlrd down again in industry? No, I do not think 

 o. I cannot give you a reason for it, but it seems 

 to me the highor wages they get the less work they do. 



4752. Have you been able to make a comparison 

 to judge that condition under normal conditions? 

 I think we are under normal conditions at the present 

 time, and have been in the last few months. 



4753. Do you think that we are under normal con- 

 ditions now, so short a period after the conclusion of 

 hostilities? Yes, I think so at the present time. Pre- 

 vious to the war the men were working 60 hours a 

 week and were being paid 15s. a week, 3d. an hour. 

 The wages have been raised to 36s. 6d. a week and 

 the hours reduced to 54 just over 8d. an hour which 

 really for the same number of hours as were worked 

 before the war is equal to 40s. 6d. a week. That is an 

 increase in wages of 270 per cent. A man is working 

 to-day six hours a week less than he did before the 

 war. I admit that that partly accounts for the 

 reduced output, but not altogether. 



4754. Do you suggest that some of it is due to the 

 reduced number of working hours and some of it to 

 reduced efficiency ? I do. 



4755. In your case, if your men were so much over 

 military age, would there not be a natural deteriora- 

 tion in their case owing to the fact that they are 

 growing old? That would only operate in the case of 

 a few of the oldest. 



4756. You say you did not lose many men during 

 the war? We lost about 20 perhaps. 



4757. You say your men were mostly over age, and 

 therefore they would now be reaching an age when you 

 would expect some depreciation ? Yes, but in the men 

 who have come back to us, and who were with us 

 before the war, we do not get the same amount of 

 work out of them. 



4758. Do you not think that is due to war strain, 

 which they have not yet recovered from ? It may be 

 due to some extent to the life they have led the last 

 three or four years. 



4759. Can you give us any idea of the extent to 

 which the industry may suffer from lack of transport? 

 I am afraid I cannot just at) the moment; it is 

 rather difficult to say. I should not like to express an 

 opinion upon that. 



4760. Mr. Prosier Jones : What number of men do 

 you say you were employing upon your farm ? Do you 

 mean just the farms I have to manage? 



4761. Yes? We had somewhere about 90 men before 

 the war ; I cannot tell you exactly to one or two. 



4762. What number have you between 14 and 18 

 years of age? I cannot tell you now; I could have 

 told you if I had known you wanted that information 

 perhaps a little under 20 15 to 20 in number. 



4763. In the future these men will be educated under 

 the new Education Act, and they will have to attend 

 for that purpose a certain number of hours every week 

 at school? Yes. 



4764. Will you give us your opinion as to how far 

 that is going to affect the cost of production? I am 

 afraid I cannot. Will they have to attend during 

 working hours? 



4765. Yes, most likely? How many hours a week? 



4766. About eight hours? I am afraid I cannot 

 answer that question. 



4767. This must materially affect the cost of pro- 

 duction, must it not? It will affect the cost of pro- 

 duction pretty considerably, but I am pot prepared to 

 state to what extent at the present time. That is a 

 matter which wants to be worked out. 



4768. Do you agree with me that it is desirable that 

 the agricultural labourer should have every facility for 

 educating himself? It is desirable to educate everj 

 man the highest you possibly can in every business. 



4769. Do you think for the time and money ex- 

 pended upon it there would be a good return from 

 them ? I do not know ; I am not prepared to say on 

 that point ; 1 rather doubt it. 



4770. Do you think we have anything to fear fro.ri 

 foreign competition in the future? I should BUT 

 probably we have. 



4771. From what country do you mean? I have no 

 definite opinion on that point, but taking it generally 

 I think the probability is that in a few years' time, 

 when the cost of transport is cheaper, we sha!l get 



