MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



185 



20 August, 1919.] 



MR. L. N. GOODING. 



[Continued. 



4812. He was complaining about his men. With 

 reference to what Mr. J. M. Henderson just asked 

 you as to the employment of labour on wet days, do 

 you not think that it would be more economical to 

 work large farms than to work small farms, because 

 of the use you could make of your labour on wet days? 

 Undoubtedly. 



4813. In cleaning up the machinery, and in the fact 

 that there would be more barn work to do? Yes, I 

 agree it is more expensive to work a small farm than 

 a large one. 



4814. And so far as wet days are concerned, there 

 would be more employment for the men? Yes, on a 

 large farm employment could be found for them, 

 whereas on a small farm they would be told there was 

 no work for them to do, and they could go home. 



4815. Mr. Cautley: You have light land, mixed 

 land, heavy land, and fen land in Norfolk? Yes, that 

 is right. 



4816. You have only presented your accounts for 

 the light land? That is so. 



4817. May we have the same sort of accounts for 

 these other three kinds of land when you come again? 

 I do not know thai I shall have time to prepare 

 them. 



4818. Then I hope you will postpone your visit until 

 you can do so? It is a very big job. 



4819. Yes, but you are appointed by the Chamber 

 of Commerce and the Farmers' Federation to put 

 evidence before us, and you seem to me to be the 

 most likely person to get this information for us? 

 If you would like to have it I will get it for you. 



4820. Yes? I could have got it for you if I had 

 had time. I have left out land which only produces 

 two or three coombs to the acre, because in my 

 opinion I considered it was not fair to bring that 

 forward, as it seems to me that land of that descrip- 

 tion must of necessity go out of cultivat on at the 

 present rate of wages. 



4821. It would be very interesting if we could get 

 the cost of growing wheat on the other lands so that 

 we might know roughly what proportions are on the 

 different kinds of land in Norfolk? That is go'.ng to 

 be produced by another body from the County. 



I-'J2. If we are going to have it from somebody 

 else we do not want it twice over. Perhaps you will 

 communicate with the other body with regard to it. 

 The only thing we want is the information, and that 

 it shall be authentic when we get it? Yes, I will 

 try and do that. 



4823. The only comparisons you have drawn as to 

 pr-ces are between the 1914 prices and present day 

 prices ; you have given us no figures for the interven- 

 ing period? That I am not prepared to state off- 

 hand ; I will get that for you by next time. 



4824. I understood you to say with regard to the 

 percentage rise up to date that the wages before the 

 war were 15s. for 60 hours' work? It was someth'ng 

 like that. 



4825. And that they are now 36s. 6d. for 54 hours' 

 work? Yes. 



4826. What is the overtime rate? lOd. an hour 

 on wok-days and Is. on Sundays,. 



I -'.'7. So that that makes 41s. 6d. if the full number 

 t.f hours are worked 60 hours as compared with 

 36s. 6d. ? Yes, if you make it up to 60 hours. 



4828. You must take the extra 6 hours at the 

 present rate' you have to pay to draw the comparison, 

 so that it is now 60 hours r.t 41s. 6d. as against 60 

 hours prr-war at 15s. ? Yes. 



H'2!J. I have some questions I wish to ask you rn 

 your figures, but I will reserve them for a future 

 occasion when we see you again? Very good. 



4-C}0. Mr. llnlliix : I just want to elucidate the 

 j:oint about the decrease in the efficiency of labour. 

 I.ikr th ri'st of US), you read the papers, and I think 

 you will agree that that is a complaint which 

 is applied to all the indiHtric.s <if this and other 

 countries that there is a decrease at the moment in 

 officM-nfy <;f laliour? I think that is so, but I am 

 ii->t gin-pared to spoak with regard to any other in- 

 dustry. 



4831. Quito so. I only want to point out to you 

 that it may be an abnormal thing arising out of all 



the abnormalities which have sprung from the war ? 

 I cannot say what the cause is, but the effect is the. 

 man has less energy now than he had before the war ; 

 he dees not do the same amount of work as he used 

 to do. 



4832. We have all had a trying time, and particu- 

 larly you in Norfolk, with your Zepp. raids, and air 

 raids, and your relatives at the war, and all the other 

 anxieties which arose during the war. All these 

 things are bound to have alfected persons' mental 

 condition, and that must be reflected, must it not, 

 more or less, in the efficiency of their labour? On 

 my own farms we used to pay 3s. an acre for chopping 

 out turnips. I offered the men 2j times the money to 

 do it by piecework, but they refused to do it by 

 piecework. They said they could not earn sufficient 

 money at it. Consequently they did it by day work,, 

 and instead of costing us 2J times as piuch, the cost 

 was 9s. 4d. an acre over 300 per cent, increase on the 

 labour. I think that points to the fact that you are 

 not getting the labour out of the men that you used 

 to do, and these men I am speaking of are very good 

 men, some of the best of our men. All the estimates 

 with regard to labour are thrown out of proportion 

 because you do not get the same proportion of work 

 from the men that you used to get in the same amount 

 of time. 



4833. I want to try to show that that is an abnormal 

 thing arising from the abnormal conditions under 

 which we have all laboured recently? I cannot tell 

 you the reason for it; all I know is that the fact 

 exists. 



4834. Do you think it is an increasing quantity, 

 or is it decreasing? Take the period of the war, and 

 the period that has elasped since the war. Is it 

 getting better, or getting worse? I think it has beiem 

 getting worse up to the present time. 



4835. You are not looking forward to it being worse 

 in the days to come, are you? I cannot say what 

 will happen in the future, but I know it is a very 

 seriius matter at present. 



4S36. You may not be aware of it, but it is the 

 fact that in the past in the case of all industries 

 increases in wages, after a certain period, have led 

 ultimately to higher efficiency? All I can say at 

 present is that the continued increase of wages on the 

 farm iHs led to a decrease in efficiency. 



4837. You do not suggest that if you wore to de- 

 crease their wages you would increase the efficiency? 

 No, I do not suggest that. 



4838. You do not suggest that as a remedy ? No, 

 I would not suggest that, but I suggest that this point 

 as regards the decrease in efficiency of the labour 

 requires attention. 



4839. Apart from guarantees, is there anything you 

 could suggest to the Commission that you think might 

 be done by the country generally for the improvement 

 of agriculture? I think I said before I was not pre- 

 pared to suggest what should bo done to rectify the 

 present state of things. It is not for me to suggest 

 it ; I am not prepared to suggest it. 



4840. Of course, the Commission have to look to 

 the future of agriculture we are all concerned about 

 the future of agriculture and we want to get from 

 men like you, with your practical experience and y id-^ 

 range of knowledge, if you can tell us anything that 

 we, in turn, can suggest to the Government, which 

 would be for the welfare of the industry? I do not 

 suggest a remedy. The only thing I suggest 

 is that the farmer must have a slight increase 

 over the cost of production for his products to pay 

 for his own time and labour and a percentage of 

 interest on his capital, which he is entitled to, like 

 any other industry. 



4841. Of course, nobody would quarrel with that? 

 That is all ] suggest, but how to do it I cannot tell 

 you ; I am not competent to say. 



4842. Mr. Ashby : 1 think you said just now that 

 wages in 1914 were 15s. a week, and that now they 

 are 36s. 6d. a week? Yes. 



4843. Are you comparing in each case the same 

 dass of man? Yes, I think so. 



4844. A horse-man in each case? No, a horse-mar, 

 gets 42s. 6d. to-day, not 36s. 6d. 



4845. You arc comparing in each case the ordinary 

 labourer? Yes. 



