

ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



14 



, 1919.] 



MR. JAMIM GABDNEK. 



[Continued. 



our shoeing bilU, our liuincw, bill*, and all tin- 



w have to buy, I think tli.-y will i. H...IM at a high 



very much longer than th* high price ..I Un- 



HClllal (ollllllodltX We ll.lVe tO M'll. 



l;l.:UI. Your view is that there IN going l<> b * 

 big break in the. price of cereals, although the cost 

 ul production and Uie pri*> ol wmmoditiM 

 limner haa to l.uy remain high, and th.it that will 

 jeopardise the laimerr That u my x icw . 



l.t.;U- D..CS that apply equally to oats a* to w! 



I think it will apply pretty generally all round. 



l:t..'il.'i. ll you li.m- a fairly considerable reduction 

 in tl.< .lilt*, would that not jit-vcii your 



j. i. -In. 11. .11 ..| wh-.ii A reduction in the price of 



Ki ,'UJ Yes, li..u would mean a considei ah!. 

 duction in the cost of the keep of your hoi- 

 Ye, undoubtedly. 



Ki.HI.'i. \\ hat farm crops should the guarantee apply 

 to? It t..ere is to lie a ^nar-inus" .it all. I think it 

 ought to apply to u heats and to outs at least. 



Hi. Leaving Knghind out of account lor the 

 moment, what ellcci would a. guarantee on wheat o-inl 

 oat* have on tin- general iarming sy.sU.-m in Scotland: 1 



It w..uld incline to keep the land under the plough. 

 on a long-course rotation 1 admit, hut still it woulit 

 keep the land under the plough, and not allow it to 

 . entirely to grass. 



13,347. You do not suggest a guarantee on ]>otai 



With regard to this subject 1 hold views myself 

 which I do not know that 1 hare any right to put 

 forward. 1 have views with regard to what tho 

 Minent have already dono in reference to the 

 sugar beet, and it might also lie applied to potatoes 

 no far as tho costings department is concerned. In 

 the course of a few years, if '.here should hapj>en to 

 be joint stock companies set up to purclia.se- the beet 

 root and the potatoes at prices slightly over the cost 

 of production to the average purchaser, you might 

 get a very large industry sot up in that way. 

 Whether you call that a guarantee or a subsidy I 

 do not know, but I would put that as part of the 

 general livening-iip process. 



l:t.:tlv Chairman : You are not suggesting a 

 guarantee for potatoes at the moment? No. 



l.'{.;u:'. Nor tor beet? No, not at the moment. 



l.'J.ttVl. You are merely suggesting that it may be 

 the desire of the Government or the desire of Parlia- 

 ment to Assist that new industry, or those two new 

 industries, to which you have referred. You are not 

 asking, as representative of the Scottish Kurmer-' 

 l'n ion. for any guarantee in respect of those two 

 things. > CV-rtainly not. 



13,351. 3/r. Duncan. I think you will agree that 

 the potato crop is a very considerable crop in Scottish 

 farming? Yes. 



I.'<.:i52. Perhaps a more important crop than the 

 wheat crop? In Scotland, yes, in the course of the 

 arable rotations. 



13,353. If there is going to be special AMatano* given 

 to wheat and not potatoes, do you think tho farming 

 s\st<-m in Scotland generally is going tobe benefited 

 by that!' Do you think even with the stimulus of 

 a subsidy it ought to be diverted more to wheat 

 cultivation or to maintaining the mixed farming 

 which at present obtains!- 1 - If you have it on wheat. 

 or oatii you can grow oats after your potatoes. 



I.'{.:V>1. If your ]X)tat<> crop is going to he left to 

 the market without any guarantee at all would yon 

 ! nl.l- to maintain the' same area under potatoes? 

 We certainly could not do that. We should then 

 have to turn our attention, of <-ourso, to turnips. 



1.'J..'IV>. I want to put this (|Ucstion to you just on 

 the general |xlicy M> far as Scotland is concerned: 

 do you think it would be better to stimulate wheat 

 production in Scotland with tho wheat guarantee 

 f-ecaune I suppose you will agroo that the oat guaran- 

 tee u simply complementary to the wheat guarantee? 

 Y. 



IM.3C6. It u not the purpose of the State to grow 

 more oaU, but simply because if you give a wheat 

 guarantee you have to give an oat guarantee to 

 land. That i* the position, is it not? To give a 

 op to Scotland, as it w 



.ll". .lust the inual i;i(/ ;<r lyim?- I do not know 

 tlinl ''.it would he <|iiitc the CHO. I would not alto- 



r assent to that, because m a I emei. 



you iMiiild .switch off from ont to wheat. You would 

 find the oats very useful in a case . in y 



You are a Scotsman yourself, ami you know th.- 

 proverb .ilx.ut the Scotch oat*. 



l.T.ViS. Yes, but I can quite see the difficulty in a 

 time of emergency in inducing Knglish people to eat 

 porridge. m mi which Scottish agriculture 



was being developed prior to the war was a q 

 in which wheat cultivation outside a restricted 

 was not an important crop. Do you think, shaking 

 illy, that Scottish agriculture is likely to resjx>ml 

 lu the natural coiitsc which was found profitable ami 

 useful in the development of the land prior to the war 

 or that it ought to lie diverted into wheat cultiva- 

 tion f I'l-obably if we bad the conditions the same 

 now as e had in I'.H.'t with our ci.sts well in hand, 

 assuming there was a reMOBSUo profit, we might go 

 on in Scotland without any guarantees whatever, hut 

 I think you will have a larger proportion of land 

 laid down to grass in litl'll and IH'.M than you had 

 iii I'.H.'t and I'.MI unless you have some so: 

 guarantee owing to the fact thai your costs a- 

 heavy and that the price of your produce is likell 

 to come down. 



I.'J.3">9. Have you seen any indication of any largo 

 return of grass in that way!- I ha\e some indication 

 of it here in the Board of Agriculture figures which 

 liear out what I have IH-CII urging. In 191!) the per- 

 manent grass in Scotland not for hay was 1,199,000 

 acres. In 1918 it was 1 . I'.S.OIK), so that tin-re was a 

 considerable increase in t)i- of permanent 



pasture in one year between 1!HS and 1919. 



IH, 360. Do you consider that the war cultivation 

 will be kept up even with guarantees:' That is open 

 to doubt. 1 think that on the whole guarantees would 

 have a tendency to keep up the arable cultivation. 

 1 know that Scotchmen to-day are saying they will 

 not expend money on their buildings and on further 

 permanent improvements unless they see some assur- 

 ance in front of them. 



13,361. Do you think it is economically desirable to 

 up the war cultivation that we had in Scotland r 

 Is there not a considerable proportion of land which 

 under war conditions we put under the plough which 

 economically would be better under grass? I think I 

 have already admitted that the land in Scotland from 

 which the poorer returns were jiot might go down. 



13.302. Kven with a system of guarantees it ought 

 to go down? Quite, but we have not exhausted 1 1m- 

 possibility of the land yet. In Scotland itself \oii 

 find there is a more intensive system of cultivation 

 than prevails in other parts. That is brought about 

 by more modern methods of maturing cattle and -.. 

 on putting them through quickly and by the 

 general intensification and speeding up of the system. 

 My whole argument is to intensify agriculture. It 

 you do that you will probably find that there is a lot 

 of land which is considered to-day to be not worth 

 cultivating for arable, but which is probably worth 

 cultivating for arable when you get the proper con- 

 ditions. 



13,363. Do you think tho guarantee is absolutely 

 essential to bring that land into cultivation? Along 

 with other things advocated in my jn' 



l.'l.:;i. Would the other things, together with the 

 guarantee have the effect of bringing that land into 

 cultivation? If you take the- Scottish farm to-da\ 

 as laid out for arable cultivation, and supposing the 

 tenant had security of tenure and all these other 

 things, would he lay out his money in the 1. 

 the situation which exists just now? My answer is 

 that it is very doubtful: I think not. 



l.'J.. '',:.. My doubt is whether he would lay out tin- 

 money oven with a guarantee? He might' not. 



13,366. So that ex en then it is pretty much a risk 

 it \<>u d<> nut suggest a method of - ompelling him t:i 

 lay his land out. Tho guarantee xvould have no 

 u|M>n him:- That is so unions you make tho price 

 sufficiently high to compensate him. Hut that is not 

 the way xve contemplate jt that, you are going to 

 make it so high that it xvill compensate him for the 

 price at which he has produced it 



