si 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



14 October, 



MR. JAMES GARDNEIL 



nued. 



There ar.' two men in thin country operating. In 

 (.1, Miian-, under the tenure ytcm there u prac- 

 tically nil.-, but tin' eld 1 1 would bo the same on the 

 two as it would bo on the one. The effect is a ro- 

 vivif ying effect on the industry; at Icait, the assur- 

 ance against lo* and the development of the industry. 



13,433. I should liko to be quite clear on this point. 

 You have already admitted that the result of taking. 

 SH\, the medium land as a basis for the guarantee w ill 

 be tbut the rents of the best land will rise consider 

 ably and leave the farmer practically in the same posi 

 tion as before. You (aid that, I think? Yea. 



IM l.'tl Then do you not see that if we were a nation 

 of occupying owners the result will be that all the 

 l-ciicht will go to the innn handling the land; that is 

 the operator of the farm)' You mean he would get 

 the benelit ? 



l:t.4.'{.'>. Y. > - He would be entitled to that because 

 he has the extra capital in it as well. He would be 

 entitled to the double benefit because he has the 

 double risk. 



13.436. You admit, therefore, that our system of 

 landlord and tenant, and especially the yearly tenancy 

 system under which we work, complicate the question 

 considerably as compared with the state of affairs in 

 Germany and other Continental countries ? I can- 

 not see that it does. 1 favour the system of tenancy 

 in Great Britain as against the system of the occupy- 

 ing ownership. I say the system of tenancy has not 

 yet had a fair chance to work; and it is a distinct 

 advantage for a man. especially for a young blood 

 <x>ming into agriculture, to be able to enter a farm on 

 tenancy rather than have to purchase the holding or 

 to take up tenant right or anything of that kind by 

 a large expenditure of capital. If you can leave tin' 

 tenant's capital over for the development of his hold- 

 ing, it is undoubtedly better for his own sake, if you 

 can give him a fair measure of security of tenure; 

 and it is better for the community. 



13.437. How ran you say that, in view of the fact 

 that agriculture seemed to have suffered from the 

 depression which you referred to in this country more 

 than in almost any other country in the world? 

 Because the other countries were not allowed to go 

 to the wall. Germany had a modified form of protec- 

 tion. She also had a tremendous system of research. 

 Shi- spent no end of money on re-parch. She made an 

 organised effort to use the lirain power of her scientific 

 men and men of the best ability who considered the 

 matter. They put their heads together and drafted 



a scheme, and the whole thing became one con. 

 effort to get the agricultural industry into a safe 

 position, and they succeeded. They not only succeeded 

 in making agriculture successful, but they helped to 

 make industrial enterprise in their country MI 

 by reason of that, by one re-acting on the other. It 

 .seem* to me in this country whenever tin- question of 

 agricultural prosperity comes up it is always pitted 

 :. gainst industrial prosperity, us if tho one w<-rn 

 against tho other. That is when- we make the. 

 mistake. 'Iliey mutually help each other; and if 

 tho advice of men who ^o in for research and study 

 matters were tak.'ii more in this country and u 

 cert-cd scheme of action was lollowd. >mt only in 

 ngricultuie, but in regard to industries outside agri- 

 culture, you would have a very much greater success. 



13,43S. Mr. <ii(in. 'ihere is only one question I 

 w.int to ask yon. and I think it is rather an important 

 one, because yon assented to a (jiiestion asked you by 

 Mr. Anker Simmons which I really d it thin- 

 meant to assent to. That was when he said to you 

 that wages were driven down in the Yightic* ami 

 'nineties owing to the low price of corn, and yon 

 assented to that? Did he say that wages were driven 

 down:- I rather gathered that -Mr. Anker Simmons 

 made the qualification that wages had not lieen up. 



13.43SI. This is the point I wish to make, because it 

 has been put forward once or twice, and it is a rather 

 important one, as it somewhat made wages inter- 

 dependent on prices. Lord Krnl> tailed the period 

 from 1853 to 1864 the " Golden Age of British Farm- 

 ing." Prices were relatively high, nnd tho laltourera 

 wore getting 9s, and 10s. a week, nnd sometimes 

 week. During the eighties and nineties wages were 

 11s. and 12s. a week; and from T-01, when the pric- 

 of corn touched its lowest point of L'lV. KM.. Hayes 

 began to rise. I simply wanted to make that point 

 clear as to whether you agreed that was M>, that thore 

 has been very little relationship between wages and 

 prices? There certainly was no relation lx'tw<TTi them 

 from 1860 onwards, if the facts are as you state 

 them. 



Chaii intin : The Commission wish me to say how 

 much they appreciate the excellent way in which you 

 have given your evidence. We thank you very much 

 for your attendance. 



The Witnru: I have much pleasure in being able, 

 to do anything I can for the Commission, nnd I thank 

 you for your kindness to me. 



(The Wit nest withdrew.) 



