MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



35 



15 October, 1919.] MESSRS. ALLISON, JNR., McNicoL, STEWART, DAVIDSON, MCLAREN. 



[Continued. 



rural population on the land? Is that to be com- 

 pulsory? If thej; say they want it under the plough, 

 is there to be any form of compulsion or anything? 



14.390. I am afraid I cannot say what the policy 

 of the Government will be you have not considered 

 what the guarantee should be? We wish a guarantee 

 nearly up or up to the cost of production to save a 

 big slump such as took place in former years. 



14.391. You wish the guarantee to cover the bare 

 coet of production and not to provide anything in 

 the way of profit or remuneration to the farmer? 

 That is so. 



14.392. Mr. Nicholls: I want to ask you a question, 

 Mr. Allison, arising out of a passage in paragraphSof 

 your precis. You say, " It has been felt by my 

 Committee that the farmers approached have not 

 grasped the purpose of the enquiry." What is the 

 point there? (Mr. Allison): The point i.s that in 

 endeavouring to secure costs of production we have 

 tried to obtain the costs from all farmers under the 

 same conditions. We have found that some farmers 

 give us the costs so far as they apply to their own 

 particular crop or their treatment of that crop. 

 For example, in dealing with potatoes, most farmers 

 pit their potatoes ; other farmers sell them on the 

 land. Some farmers have given us their costs based 

 on simply selling the potatoes on the land ; others 

 including all the expenditure of pitting them. That 

 is merely one example. We have not obtained them 

 on uniform lines, and if we had had more time to 

 conduct the enquiry we would have been able to 

 eliminate a lot of those factors which disturb the 

 equalisation of the costs. 



14.393. Then I notice you say : " The enquiry has 

 been further complicated by the fact that it has not 

 been possible to obtain costs from what might be 

 termed the less successful class of farmer "? Yes, 

 that is our belief. 



14.394. So that, really, you have got the cases of 

 the successful men? We think so, judging by results 

 and judging by the production per acre that has 

 been shown on the crops. In the case of potatoes, 

 we made a detailed enquiry into the cost of their 

 production per acre in order to be quite sure that 

 thov wore r-orrcct. and these figures have been very 

 slightly amended in one or two cases. The produc- 

 tion per acre is higher for these men than in the 

 Board of Agriculture figures. Consequently, we 

 assume from that we have the successful men. 



14.39.1. Mr. Ltnnard: Am I right, Mr. Allison, 

 in assuming that in your evidence-in-chief by a 

 quarter you mean 480 imperial Ibs. in the case of 

 wheat and 312 imperial Ibs. in the case of oats? No, 

 504 Ibs. in the case of wheat, 336 in the case of 

 oats, and 448 the other one. 



14,39G Your estimates of costs are derived from 

 from 15 farmers in the case of oats? Yes. 



14.397. The average cost per quarter of 336 

 imperial Ibs., as estimated by these 16 farmers, works 

 out at just under 4fis. fiid., does it not? I have not 

 worked out the average figure, but I will accept that 

 from you. 



14.398. In the case of wheat your costs are derived 

 from estimates made by 12 farmers? Yes. 



14.399. The average cost per quarter works out at 

 61s. 8Jd.? That is right. 



14.400. That is for a quarter of 504 Ibs? Yes. 



14.401. A larger quarter than the quarter for which 

 60s. was guaranteed originally in the Corn Production 

 Act? You will observe we have kept clear of aver- 

 ages, as we do not like to deal with averages in su^h 

 a small number of farms. 



14.402. Yes, I noticed that, but you quoted the 

 highest and the lowest case, and I found on taking 



verage that the average, if I remember rightly, 

 was lower than the moan of the extremes, BO I thought 

 it was only reasonable that that should be brought 

 out? -Yes." 



14.403. I have not bad time to work out the pro- 

 portions between wheat and oats in regard to theso 

 Scotch quarters, but I should like to know from you 

 whether it fs the fart that the ratio of your costs of 

 oats t<> your costs of wheat is greater than the ratio 

 between the guaranteed prices for the two cereals 

 respectively fixed in the Corn Production Act? We 

 have restricted our enquiry purely to the cost of 



26379 



production so far as we could ascertain that, and we 

 have not theorised on these figures; we simply give 

 them to you for what they are worth. 



14.404. The estimates are for the cost of production 

 in the year 1918? Yes. 



14.405. Have your costs altered much in Scotland 

 this year when I say have your costs altered, I do 

 not mean your costs per quarter, which are, of course, 

 affected by the poorer yield and the special circum- 

 stances of the season, but the cost of operations 

 apart from those affected by the weather? The cost 

 per acre? 



14.406. Yes, including wages ? The point that would 

 affect them would be an increase in the cost of raw 

 material, or an increase in the rate of wages. Those 

 are the principal items, but we have not worked out 

 any imaginary cost for 1919 or 1920; but if we as a 

 Union could fix a basis for ourselves we could easily 

 work out the hypothetical cost for 1919 or 1920 based 

 on the increased cost of material or wages. 



14.407. Could you make up such an estimate? 

 Yes, after ascertaining what the alteration in wages 

 or prices is which affects them. 



14.408. You know what the alterations are in the 

 prices this year? Yes. 



14.409. What amount do you allow in your costs for 

 the farmer's management? Do you refer to the 

 nature of the services allowed for, or the amount 

 allowed for them ? 



14.410. The amount allowed for them? The amount 

 allowed varies. In this particular farm that I am 

 looking at , which is a Renfrewshire farm, the farmer 

 has allowed nothing for management, as he pays 

 nothing for management. 



14.411. Is that an estimate? No, we are dealing 

 with actual figures here. You mean did we allow 

 anything in these costs of production for the services 

 of the farmer? 



14.412. Yes, that is what I mean? We do not; we 

 allow nothing for the services of the farmer. I have 

 always gone upon the basis that the farmer will be 

 remunerated out of his profit. 



14.413. Do you deduct the rent of the farmer's 

 dwelling-house from the gross rent of the farm 

 before you apportion the rent to the various fields? 

 No* that has not been done. It is a question you 

 will always get differences of opinions upon, and the 

 effect of it on farms of the acreages we have would 

 be very slight. 



14.414. The effect would be slight if the acreage is 

 largo? Yes. 



14.415. Still it means that under these costs the 

 farmer gets a dwelling-house free? Yes. 



14.416. Just one question which arises out of a 

 question asked you by Mr. Smith. You said just now 

 that the rate of depreciation would be greater in the 

 case of agricultural machinery than in the case of 

 industrial machinery, because, as I understood you, 

 agricultural machinery is exposed to the weather? 

 Yes. 



14.417. I should follow that if the position were 

 similar in other respects, but I suppose you would 

 agree with me that industrial machinery is usually in 

 constant use sometimes in use night and day where- 

 as much agricultural machinery is only used for a 

 short period in each year? It does not follow that 

 the depreciation would be less because of that, unless 

 you are assuming at the same time that the agricul- 

 tural machinery when not in use is being looked after 

 and kept in the same good condition, with a special 

 staff attending to it, but it is not. 



14.418. No, but it does mean surely that there is 

 actually more wear and tear because of the constant 

 use of the machinery in the factory than is the caee 

 with agricultural machinery in the field? There is 

 more wear and tear in the factory. 



14.419. Mr. Prosser Jones : Mr. Allison, you told 

 one of the Commissioners that the farms are in rather 

 a bad way owing to the war? That is the general 

 opinion. 



14.420. And it means a considerable outlay to 

 bring the land back into proper condition? That is 

 so. 



14.421. Whose duty would it be to find the money 

 to bring back this land into condition: would it be 



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