71 



ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



October, 



Mi; THOMAS WILLIAMS. 



[Continued, 



K>. But limn- tin' liss. you tliink it would l>e 

 unfair not to have a gii.ir.mtci-d price for moat, if 

 you hare a guaranteed price for corn? Well, I 

 nhould say it would he a sat isfaetion nt the present 

 time. 



15.597. Are there any other agricultural products 

 for which you think guaranteed prices should be fixed 

 if guaranteed prices art- continued for corn? I do 

 nut know. Of course I have not considered that 

 matter, whether it is advisable to have a guar. 

 price for everything. It ia rather difficult to say, 

 but it might be necessary to have a guaranteed price. 

 Of course I should say that the guaranteed price for 

 corn is the main thing. 



15.598. I think I understood you to say just now, 

 that on your class of land it would be necessary to 

 have a price of 100s. a quarter if wheat production 

 was to be remunerative? Yes; I am giving a sort of 

 estimate, seeing the very low yield that is produced 

 in Wales on the nlu.l. 



I'i,"i09. So that in Wales a guaranteed' price for 

 wheat approximately the same as that of this year 

 would be very little good to you? No good at all. 



15,600. Would it surprise you to know that if you 



bad no guaranteed price and no Government inter- 



e with your wheat growing, you would at this 



moment be able to sell your wheat at something over 



90s. a quarter? I should expect that. 



15.600A. Mr. Xirholls: How long have you been 

 holding your farm? I have been where I am at pre- 

 sent 10 years. I have been farming nil my life. I 

 hare farmed myself for a quarter of a century; but 

 previously I was farming high farms, to begin with 

 a small farm, and then I also farmed five small farms 

 to the extent of some 700 acres. 



1VU01. Do you own any? No. 



15.602. HOW many farms have you now? Only one 

 large farm at present. 



15.603. But I understood, in answer to Mr. 

 Piosser Jones, you said you had gome in his district 

 also? No. I did farm formerly five small farms at 

 the 'same time for a number of years. 



15.604. But you are now confined to the 500 acres? 

 That is so. 



;<>j. 100 of which would be cereal growing? 

 That is so. 



15.606. Is this Welsh land really suitable for cereal 

 growing, or would you consider, from the national 

 point of view, that it would be better not to attempt 

 it? No, I do not say altogether. The land varies so 

 much. Some of it is fairly adaptable for cereal 

 growing; but on the whole the yield is much too low 

 to grow, unless a very high price is paid for the 

 corn. 



15.607. What you feel is that if the Government 

 come along and say, " We want so much cereal 

 grown," you would say, " You must give us a guaran- 

 tee that we are going to live by this business "? 



15.IKK That is really your position ? That is so. 

 16,609. Is it strong heavy land three-horse land' 

 It varies very much. 



1'i.iJlO. How many horses do you have on yourself, 



Mile, for a single plough? Two. 

 1'i.iJlJ. I notice you refer to Wales as being prin- 

 cipally a small-holding country. You say in the first 

 paragraph tho large majority are small holders. Is 

 that ranging between five and fifty acres? Yes. 



!'.,i;iL'. And I think you intimate here that they 

 work long hours and work very hard, the whole 

 family. What I wanted to ask you was, whether 

 then- were many applicants for land among returned 

 r.ldicrs in Wales? Yes, a considerable number. 



':l. Would you not have thought that those 



men, who bad been away and got in touch with other 



lite, ould have been rather inclined to fight shy of 



long hours and hard work, and would have 



ih-. ov. i. .1 something more interesting and less 



1 tliink the original idea was that all 



^ were going to have land for nothing, 



or were going to have a great bargain over the 



matter, when a great number of these applications 



came in. 



15,614. When you sift them down and the men 

 now know what they have got to pay y still 



applicants? I do not know that it has gone that 

 far; but there are a number of cases where these 

 men are married, and they want to come ba. 

 number of them, to where they lived formerly. The 

 housing is very short; but what they usually 

 want is a small holding of grass land without much 

 (illimitable land. 



15,610. What do they do then dairying .,r sheep? 

 Yes, it would be to a great extent dairying, I should 



15.616. With reference to theeo smallholders that 

 are already there, are ninny of them holders of their 

 own plots? No. comparatively few. 



15.617. Would they be old' tenants, mon of long 

 Ma mling who have gone through the difficult ye.. 

 Yes, some of them. 



15.618. I suppose you would consider that that was 

 one reason why these very high prices are being 

 paid for holdings; that, although men really do not 

 consider it is economically worth it, they have lived 

 for many years in the locality, and have brought 

 their families up, and do not know anything (] l m t 

 farming, and ar> inclined to give much too much ior 

 a farm because they want to retain their position 

 there? That is so. 



15.619. I mean, it means ruin to a man to have to 

 clear off not knowing what he is going to do ami ho 

 has not saved anything? Yes; the position is so un- 

 certain that ho will take some risks 



15.620. It is not because they know it is worth it, 

 or because they have got the money ; but they do not 

 know really where else to go? Yes, quite; that is 

 very often the case. 



15.621. You also say the cottages are very bad. Is 

 there any movement on the part of the Government to 

 put up cottages on theso plots for smallholders? Is 

 that an attraction to the men who are coming back 

 from the war? Yes, I think so. 



16.622. Are the Government moving in the matter 

 at all? Very slowly, I am afraid. They propose doing. 



15.623. They are giving an assurance that .-ome- 

 thing is going to be done. That would really encourage 

 a man to come? Yes, quite. 



15.624. I am rather interested, in your rcfercm e 

 in paragraph 3, to what you say about "It is to tin- 

 advantage of both farmer and labourer that a portion 

 of the wages of the latter should be paid in kind."? 

 1 would like to qualify that, and to say it is an 

 advantage to the labourer; but generally when it 

 comes to milk and other small matters, it is not an 

 advantage to the farmer to supply that thing in kind 

 at wholesale prices in consequence of the extra trouble 

 it entails in doing this. I do not consider it i 

 advantage to tho farmer. I might say in addition 

 that it is the tendency, and will bo the tendency if 

 labour will claim too high wages and too short b. 



to wipe off the perquisites altogether, which I do not 

 think will bo in the interests of the labourer. Tlieio 

 are evor so many things he gels at present that would 

 be of considerable value if he had to go to the market 

 to purchase them. 



l">.(i'2"). Take milk. It is n advantage to the 

 farmer that his workpeople and their families, 

 should have good food. I mean ho wants a fit manP 



Yes 



I. r i.(i26. And it is an advantage to have milk in the 

 family? Yes. 



.15,627. It is not much loss to the farmer if tin- 

 man's wife fetches the. milk to the house. I mean, it 

 may l>e an advantage to be able to go to the house 

 and get good milk at wholsesalo prices; but, I tliink, 

 really, the farmer ouglir, to feel he is doing a good 

 stroke for himself in getting a good article into his 

 workmen a.s well as ho would be in getting good corn 

 into his animals? Yes, I quite agree with that, so 

 far ; but you will realise, if there are .1 dozen work- 

 men's wi\es coming to tin- hon.se for milk, there must 

 be someone employed to attend to that particular 

 work ; so that if it is only sold at wholesale prices, 

 you will see it does n >t pay tho farmer to do that 

 from that point of view. 



15,628. But surely it if a matter for arrangement. 

 If he has a do7.cn families that are coming to the 

 house for milk, he knows pretty well when they an 



