ROYAL COMMISSION ON AGRICULTURE. 



1 1. in.] 



MR. THOMAS WILLIAMS. 



[COIII: 



!":''. You ii.no mado the statement thut 

 laud il- mm. What. 1 \\:uit to know i-. il 



thai >i:iti->ii<<ia i> true, liow much it will t;. 

 bring it back to a proper state <: I quit< 



appreciate tho question. It is an important iju. 

 but it us Ji question that is rather dill'u nil to answer 

 without considering the Hut I do not think 



ny ono will dispute tlmt it is an actual fart that it 

 has depr 



:iO. That is jour statement, hut \on cannot give 

 .v idea how 'much tin- cost will |K> to bring tin- 

 land back to it* proper state? I would not like to 

 -lima!*' without having gone into it. 



1.1,711. In regard to Mr. Smith's qin-tion dealing 

 with tho yiold, can you not give us any idea as to 

 tin- \ lold.'say, for cereals per m-n> in your part of 

 tho country r Of course, it varies so much. 



1-711'. Take, your own farm you arc bound to 

 have knowledge of \our own farm. Give us the yield 

 per acre of your own farm? I grow 38 bushels of 

 wheat, but iny land is very good land. 



1.1.713. That is the yield <.ii your farm? That was 

 the yiold last year; it will be 'less this year. 



15,714. Have you any particulars of any other 

 farms in your neighbourhood? Several of the best 

 farms yield that, Imt that is not any indication of 

 the conditions generally ' n Wales. Just there the 

 laud i- ver.v productive very good land. 



1.1. How does that compare with the yield, say, 

 in 191 I: It >s equally as good.* 



1.1.71(5. You mean the yield this year is equally as 

 good as it was in I'.M I P The yiold last year; I should 

 not say it is as good this year. 



15.717. On tho question of guarantees, do you really 

 need a guarantee. ...ay. of 100s. a quarter of wheat in 

 the case of land which yields ,'i>* bushels an acre? 



. I gave you last year's . hich 



was an exceptional year. I do not want tho Com- 

 mission to take that 'as apply inn t<> Wales generally; 

 that only applies to a special case. 



15.718. Have you nothing further to say on that? 

 No. I <!> not think so. 



15,71!'. Have you any sugestions to mako to the 

 Commisiion further thaii that contained in this state- 

 ment hot or Take the question of transport, for 

 exampler' Yes, I think something could be done as 

 far as transport is concerned which might bo a con- 

 siderable help, and I would suggest that there would 

 be a greater advantage by increasing road transport 

 than railway transport In various parts of Wales 

 the County Authorities have boon pushing on the 

 matter of railway transit. 



1 .1.720. Would not road transport bo more adapt- 

 able to tho condition of affairs in Wales than rail- 

 way transit, because of tho nature of the ''011111 

 Yea, that is my view most distinctly I am positive 

 of that and 'if something was done to encourage 

 that it would be a great help I am sure. 



15.721. Is there any co-operation amongst the 

 smaller farmers, particularly in Wales? Yes. There 

 has I" ' ial move on during the last year or 



two and it is spreading very rapidly, and I believe 



it will i 't with OMUM0raM0 success. In dairying, 



especially, the co-operative movement, is most strong, 

 and in a general way it is taken up, too particularly 

 in regard to tho purchasing of feeding stuffs and to 

 some extent as regards sales, too. 



1.1.71>1>. Buying and Rolling? Yes. 



1.V7-J.T You think it would be a good thing if that 

 prim iplo were extended? Yes. In the county I live 

 in wo have formed a very substantial organisation 

 whi'h has risen to verv considerable dimensions in 

 a very short time, and it appears to bo goin 

 with great success. In other parts of Wales, also, the 

 same movement is taking place at the present time. 



15,7 oiild extend that principle to other 



things in connection with the industry? Yes, quite, 

 linve nothing else to suggest? No, I 

 do not think I have. 



1.1 7iv.. \>'. /'..'I'/ki.i: With reference to what you 

 aid about the cereal production. I want to ask you 

 whether the land which produced 38 bushels in I'M I 

 and 1918 is the same land to which you refer when 



i tie witness subsequently stated that tho an 

 to Q. 1.1 71. I should ),.-: " It is higher than 101 1 " 



you say that wheat cannot I,, produced at leas than 

 100s. a quartoi I- This would HUH refer to some of 

 the now land. 



1.1.7J7. I wish to ask whether the two answers 

 refer to the same olass of lai: 'iot altogether. 



1'.. 7-. 1 -. You do not say that HK)s. a quarter is 

 -ary to pay the cost of wheat grown on land- 

 which is capable of producing 38 bushels an acre? 

 No, certainly not : I mean on tho poor and un- 

 suitable land on which there is so much corn grown. 



1.1.71"). You would regard 100s. as a figure which 

 would lardy lie attained during normal conditions 

 according to tho world price? -Yes. 



15.730. So that really in order to produce wheat 

 on that poor land tin-re would require to be a 

 perpetual subsidy? Yes, quite to produce it under 

 present conditions and labour conditions successfully. 

 On that unsuitable land there would need to be a 

 perpetual subsidy. 



15.731. You do' not advocate the perpetual subsidy 

 do you? No, I do not advocate the growing of 

 wheat on that land at all. 



15.732. You think that land is unsuitable for wheat 

 p reduction ? Qu i te . 



15.733. Is -t equally unsuitable for oat produc- 

 tion? Some of it might be used for oat production, 

 but it does not produce such great yields. In many 

 cases the farmer feeds it to his stock ; it is useful 

 in that way. 



15.734. Tlio land is capable of growing oats 

 profitably for use on tho farm? Yes, that is so. 



1 .1.73o! Although not producing a good grinding 

 sample? > 



M.7.''.ti. I'roduotion would be increased on the 

 whole by cultivating that land for oats, would it 

 not? Quite. 



11,737. You would think it is a mistake, would 

 you not, to do anything which would tend to divert 

 that land from oat production to wheat production? 



Yi I 1 -hotild say SO. 



1.1.7,'N. You have spoken of a guarantee for other 

 produce besides cereals. You are aware of the 

 machinery, of course, under the Corn Production Act 

 for payment at a certain rate per aero? Ye-. 



1.1. 739. You could not adapt machinery of that 

 kirn' could you, to meat or milk? No, I am afraid 

 it would he rather difficult. 



1.1.7)0. Therefore, guarantees for meat or milk 

 would entail the guarantee of a market also? I 

 e\pect it would. 



M.7II. Therefore, tho Covornmcnt would in cer- 

 tain eventualities need he become a purchaser? That 

 might be M>. 



'42. Would that not inevitably lead to a fixed 

 price to the (iovernmont and the abolition of all 

 free markets? It would have that tendency. 



1-1.71:!. You say in your first paragraph that "The 

 majority of Welsh farmers are in reality agricultural 

 labourers "? Yes. 



1.1.714. You refer I think to tie fact that a very 

 large proportion of the farms in Wales are small 

 farms and that, therefore, a < < n-idcralilo part of tho 

 agricultural labour is performed by tho farmers and 

 their families, is that so? Quite. 



15,74.1. There must bo many eases in whic'> there is 

 mi labour other than that of the farmer and his 

 family? -Yes, a great number. 



1.1. 7 Hi. In those cases do the farmers pav wages to 

 their famili.. \<>t u-ually : it has nfll been the 



custom. 



1.1.717 In exceptional eases it is done? Yes. 



1. Hut usually and normally no wages are 

 paid? No. nothing at all. 



]:, 7 litod to these farmers' 



children - N not as a rule. 



1.1.7-Ki. So that they lack one il, ' ic of the 



acricultural labourer they have no wages? Yes, 

 that is so. 



I.-, 7 farmers pav for their labour only the 



bare cost of their children's maintennnce?--Y T os. 



15,752. Have they grown verv wealthy? No. never. 

 T have, known any number of cases where the sons 

 of th. is have worked until middlo age with- 



out any wnees at all or anything and there was prar- 

 tically nothing left for them afterwards. 



