MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



81 



28 October, 1919.] 



MR. THOMAS WILLIAMS. 



[Continued. 



15,851. In answer to Mr. Smith you said that 

 last year you grew 38 bushels of wheat per acre. 

 Can you tell us what your average is on the class 

 of land you farm taking the last 10 years? 

 I can only give you an estimate. 



15,a52. Give us an estimate? About 30. Last 

 year was a most exceptional yield. 



15.853. The Commission may have understood that 

 you generally grow 38 bushels an acre? No. 



15.854. Chairman : You said in reply to a ques- 

 tion that your yield was 38 bushels in 1918 and 

 practically the same in 1914 ?_I am sorry. That 

 does not bear out my recollection. Last year was 

 a most extraordinary yield; I have never had any- 

 thing like it. 



15.855. That is what you did say to the best 

 of my recollection. I am afraid you will have to 

 correct your evidence in some respects ? Yes, it must 

 be a misunderstanding. 



15.856. Mr. Overman: You say you think your 

 average for the last 10 years is not more than 



) busjiels?- I should say approximately 30 bushels. 



15.857. What can you grow of oats on your farm? 



I do not personally grow oats extensively: I grow 

 wheat and barley chiefly. 



15.858. No oats? Yes, I do grow oats. I should 

 say the oat yield would be about i'2 bushels per aero. 



15.859. With reference to the sales of these small 

 farms which have been taking place in Wales, the 

 County Councils you say have been large purchasers 

 all through:' Yes. 



I.">.^>0. Where the County Councils have been the 



purchasers in Wai, >s U it not the fact that they are 



merely displacing one smallholder to put in another? 



There is unfortunately too mu^h of that being 



done. 



1-").>'11. The County Connci's ar to a great extent 

 to blame for the enhanced prices these pcorer men 

 are forced to pay?- Of course thi> County Council am 

 urged to do that by the Board of Agriculture; they 

 are just carrying out an Order. 



!". ->':'!. Are agr.cult tirists represented to pny ex- 

 tent on the Welsh County Councils? Yes, but not 

 a majority. In a gcxxl many part* of Wales the in- 

 dustrial workers have a bfg voice on the County 

 Council. Thre is a very strong feeling I may say 

 amongst farmers against these small holdings being 

 bought by the County Coum-iK and in many cases 

 there is more or lefts a contract that the 'sitting 

 tenant shall remain on as a smallholder, but if he 

 remains on under those circumstances he remains on 

 at a considerably increased rent by the time the 

 property has been adapted as a small holding. 



15,863. That places him at a great disadvantage? 

 Quito. 



I">.-i>l. Mr. Itnti'hf.lor: Has farming been a profit- 

 able business in Wales since 1914? I should say so. 



15,665. During the years since 1914, should I be 

 right in .saying that the crop of 1918 has been the 

 most profitable? It rather depends upon the dis- 

 trict. Perhaps in some of the earlier districts where 

 the corn was SK ured before the bad weather set in, 

 I should say it was the most profitable year, but 

 taking Wales on the whole in the higher parts, a 

 very groat quantity of the crops was absolutely 

 spoilt by the bad weather, and 1918 probably turned 

 out to be the least profitable year in those districts 

 where, the weather was very bad. It varies very 

 much. 



l-").-()6. 1918, taking -it on the average, would show 

 the biggest vield ? Yes, the biggest I ever remember. 

 7 What, was the condition before 1914. Was 

 there a profit in farming or a bare living or what? 

 Conditions had gradually improved for some years 

 previous to 1911, and I do not think on the whole 

 ther<- was very much to complain of in just the latter 



!{, taking" the whole thing together. 

 1.'>.*W. Take your own case. As regards the crop 

 of 1'iH) von have a pretty fair idea now how that 

 crop is going to turn out. Would you say it was 

 considerably l*s than 1918? Yes, very much less. 

 15,869. 'Was it grown at a greater expense? Yes. 

 ~n. Do you consider that for the past few 

 von have been taking more out of the land 

 whero it has been cultivated than has been put back 

 into the land in the way of manure? Yes. 



26370 



15.871. Did you use a considerable quantity of 

 manures in Wales? Yes, there has been a good deal 

 of slag used, but during the war we could not get 

 this high grade slag because of the restrictions of 

 the department. The result was that very much less 

 was used. 



15.872. Do you use a considerable quantity of 

 farmyard manure? Yes, that is really the main stay 

 so far as manure is concerned. 



15.873. Has the value of that manure decreased 

 through the want of artificial feeding stuffs? Yes. 



15.874. So that though the quantity used may have 

 been the same the value of the manure has been very 

 much less? Yes. 



15.875. Do you consider that in the next few years 

 iu the case of cultivated land in Wales you will 

 require to put back into the land a lot of the fer- 

 tility you have taken out of it in the past few years? 

 Yes. 



15.876. Otherwise your land will not give you even 

 a reasonable crop ? That is so, but I may say we are 

 depending to a certain extent on some of the newly 

 ploughed up land. The best old pastures will go on 

 for two or three years without any manure at all. 



15.877. I would like if ycu could give us any 

 particulars in regard to the cottage and land you 

 refer to in paragraph 3 of your evidence. Have you 

 no particulars you can give us with regard to that. 

 It seems so very expensive for a cottage with just 

 enough land to keep two cows? I have an instance 

 in my mind of a case close to me where a cottage 

 with enough buildings to keep just two or three cows 

 and 9 acres of land was sold for 1,900. 



15.878. What was the rent of that? I do not know 

 the rent, but an ordinary rental for it would be 

 approximately 30. 



15.879. Is there any reason why such prices should 

 be given? Yes. As I said before one reason is partly 

 want of housing accommodation. Some persons like 

 to come into the country to live and there is a very 

 great scarcity of houses. 



15.880. How many rooms would there bo in that 

 cotta.ge? It would be what is commonly called more 

 than a cottage. You might call it a cottage ; it would 

 be something like four rooms up and four rooms down. 

 We call it a cottage, but it is rather larger than some 

 of the ordinary cottages on the farms. 



15.881. In the past, before these sales began to take 

 place, what class of people would occupy such 

 cottages? They are usually men that do work besides; 

 they might be road men or anything like that. 



15.882. They are working men actually men who 

 labour? Usually, not in all cases. 



15.883. They with their families would actually 

 work? Yes, certainly; they would not be spending all 

 their time on such a holding as that not the man. 



15.884. Mr. Cautley : I notice you say that Wales is 

 pre-eminentlv a country of smallholdings and that 70 

 per cent, of the farms in Wales are under 100 acres? 

 Yes, I believe even more than that. 



15.885. Could you tell mo at all how many are 

 under 50 acres? I have not the figures. 



15.886. Mr. Edwards : This figure of 70 per cent, of 

 farms under 100 acres is wrong. It either ought to 

 read 70 per cent, under 50 acres or 87 per cent, under 

 100 acres. Either the 70 per cent, or the 100 acres 

 is wrong. I am quoting from the official returns? 

 I have no reason to believe that that is not right. 



15.887. Mr. Cautley : In Wales on the farms under 

 50 acres would the farmer employ any outside labour? 

 He would in some cases. 



15.888. Ho would employ a man? In some cases he 

 would employ a man if he did not have any help from 

 his sons if he had no sons or anything like that. 

 In some cases he would employ a man and in some 

 cases he would employ a man part time on 50 acres. 



15.889. Is it usual on a farm of 50 acres or under 

 for the farmer to work it himself together with his 

 sons and not pay any wages at all?--Ycs, that would 

 be the usual thing to do. 



15.890. That would be the case, in 70 per cent, of 

 the farms. They are not then affected verv much by 

 the minimum charge? Not those very small holdings 

 of course. 



15.891. That is 70 per cent, of the whole?-Jt is 

 70 per cent, of the number, but not the acreage. 



