CONGRESS, UNITED STATES. 



Mr. Bhiine: "That is what I mean. Now, 

 as the Senator will observe, just as in those 

 committees, so in this, both political parties 

 will bo represented, and they will use their 

 discretion ; but if you by a rule beforehand say 

 that under no circumstances shall they hold a 

 closed-door meeting, you have taken all proper 

 responsibility from them. You have taken 

 from them any exercise of discretion what- 

 ever." 



Mr. Bayard : " I do hold that any man, how- 

 ever humble, however poor, has a right to be 

 confronted with the witnesses against him. 

 He has a right to know the charge against him. 

 This proceeding is, as I say, an indictment 

 against a whole people ; it is a railing accusa- 

 tion ; therefore the more difficult to meet, and 

 therefore the proof in regard to it ought to be 

 open especially. The Senator must see, I sub- 

 mit to his candor, to his sense of fairness, that 

 a man may come in burning with partisan dis- 

 like and make false charges against one hun- 

 dred and fifty men ; the Senator or I on that 

 committee have no knowledge of the facts 

 save that which the witness chooses to give 

 us ; power of cross-examination we have none, 

 because we have not the knowledge to conduct 

 a cross-examination. There is something in 

 this which strikes my sense of justice and of- 

 fends it. I would not wish to do by another 

 what I would not have done by me ; and I can 

 understand that, if my character were to be 

 assailed in secret without the opportunity of 

 cross-examination, I should feel it exceedingly 

 unjust were I not to be fully informed of it all, 

 and be there at the time that I might defend 

 myself. 



"I believe I have already referred to the 

 fact that the most voluminous testimony has 

 been in print for several years, taken at differ- 

 ent dates depositions of witnesses examined 

 and cross-examined in private. They all have 

 been in private ; none that I know of, in which 

 there has not been a refusal to allow these 

 matters to be public, although they were sub- 

 sequently fully published without injury to any 

 one ; and yet I believe great injustice was done 

 by that method of taking testimony." 



Mr. Hoar of Massachusetts : " Mr. President, 

 I wish simply to call the attention of the Sen- 

 ate to the fact that the proposition made by 

 the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. Butler], 

 and now renewed by the Senator from West 

 Virginia [Mr. Davis], is in opposition to the 

 uniform precedents both of the Senate and the 

 House in all like cases since the foundation of 

 the Government. It is in opposition to the 

 uniform precedents in regard to original inves- 

 tigations wherever criminal or unlawful con- 

 duct is charged." 



Mr. Bayard: "Will the Senator pardon 

 me?" 



Mr. Hoar : " Certainly." 



Mr. Bayard : " I was a member of a com- 

 mittee which sat six weeks in the city of New 

 York investigating the custom-house affairs 



there. That examination was public, and made 

 so by the committee." 



Mr. Hoar: "I understood the Senator from 

 Delaware himself to say that, in all the inves- 

 tigations of this character in which ho had 

 borne a part, the investigation had been, as 

 proposed by the original resolution, left to tho 

 discretion of the committee. I ask the Sena- 

 tor from Delaware whether, in regard to the 

 custom-house investigation, of which he speaks, 

 the question whether the public interest re- 

 quired the session to be secret or open was not 

 left to the discretion of the committee ? " 



Mr. Bayard : " It was decided by the com' 

 mittee to sit with open doors." 



Mr. Hoar : " Certainly." 



Mr. Bayard : " There was nothing said about 

 it in the original resolution." 



Mr. Hoar : " That is the precise point which 

 I was making." 



Mr. Elaine : " That is it exactly." 



Mr. Hoar : " In every instance the matter has 

 been left to the discretion of the committee, 

 with the single exception of the famous Credit 

 Mobilier investigation ; and the experience of 

 the House of Representatives in that particu- 

 lar case induced the House, the Democratic 

 House, to return to the old custom, which has 

 never been observed more strictly than during 

 the past two Congresses in the other branch. 

 The reason is obvious. In seeking to discover 

 criminal or unlawful conduct, the tribunal 

 making the investigation must avail itself fre- 

 quently and very largely of hostile sources of 

 information; and the examination of one wit' 

 ness having put them on the trace of a fact, 

 every other witness who knows that fact, but 

 who desires to keep it secret, is put on his 

 guard if the investigation is open, and flies 

 from the summons of the committee." 



Mr. Kernan of New York : " I am in. favor 

 of having a full, fair, thorough investigation. 

 I am one of those who, if it be proved that 

 wrongs are perpetrated against the humblest 

 citizen, will endeavor to protect them by cor- 

 rective legislation, if we can do it. But I wish 

 the investigation to be open and fair, so that 

 the people who are accused may have an op- 

 portunity to defend themselves against false 

 charges. The power of this committee reaches 

 all the States. It may be that there are trans- 

 actions in Northern States to be investigated 

 as to which I may have prejudices against those 

 accused ; but I do not know my own heart if 

 I wonld not resist the proposition that a com- 

 mittee of my political friends should examine 

 witnesses against these parties with closed 

 doors, excluding them from hearing the testi- 

 mony and cross-examining the witnesses against 

 them. Inasmuch as there have been commit- 

 tees who thought it their right to sit with 

 closed doors taking testimony against individ- 

 uals and communities charged with offenses, I 

 trust we will now disapprove that practice by 

 at least declaring that, if one of the Senators 

 on this committee believes the doors should be 



