20 



a thing can be theologically true, and philosophically false, or the converse. 

 I do not care for any abstract theories. I say freedom is a fact one of 

 which we are directly conscious, and therefore one of our highest certitudes ; 

 and therefore, I hold, it is a great error to say we can be philosophically free 

 in one sense and theologically not so in another ; and although some great 

 names may be mentioned in support of the proposition, my reply is that 

 I do not care whose doctrine it is, it is certainly not the doctrine either 

 of reason or of the New Testament. (Applause.) 



Rev. J. FISHER, D.D. According to the paper, at page 13, we are told that 

 " mind and matter are at the two opposite poles of being " ; but that the 

 author only means that they are objective and subjective sides of the same 

 substance ; at any rate, it conies to that in the end. Two pages further on he 

 says that Mr. Spencer denies liberty to man, and asserts that moral law must 

 fade away out of the earth, and man will need no moral directions. In 

 that case, of course, we must have the golden age. 



The CHAIRMAN. This is assumed in his last work. 



Dr. FISHER. On the fourth page Mr. Spencer is quoted as saying, 

 " that the ego is something more than the aggregate of feelings 

 and ideas" is an "illusion," and in the next sentence he speaks of man 

 as subject to " psychical states ! " On the next page we find Mr. Spencer 

 quoted as speaking on the subject of "psychical changes"; but surely if 

 man, the ego, and the psychical states and changes, be the same things, where 

 is the subject ? There is none. Mr. Spencer writes thus confusedly because 

 he is a monist, using the language of a dualist. Monism cannot construct a 

 language for itself. As regards freedom of the will, natural freedom is 

 a ground of responsibility, and grace does not interfere with it. The will 

 is the power of mind by which we choose aright ; but the exercise of the will 

 is from the heart, and, as the heart. Will is the medium of active 

 power, and operates according to the nature of the agent, and the nature of 

 the agent is the source of power. What is needed to a good choice is an 

 influence from God in the heart. A self determining will is an absurdity, 

 for if the will move itself it is both cause and effect. Motive determines 

 the will. The motive determining the will has a place in the understanding, 

 and it is through the understanding, which is the key to the heart, that the 

 will is moved. 



Rev. Preb. IRONS, D.D. I think the paper which has just been read is a 

 very important one, and it is none the less so for the statement it contains, that 

 this is the question of the age, and one which we as Christians have not, as 

 yet, sufficiently attended to. (Hear.) There is no doubt that St. Augustine con- 

 tributed to the stream of Christian thought, and it has scarcely settled down 

 into a clear and healthy condition from his day to ours. There is truth in 

 the statement of the essayist, that the Scotch philosophers, who have a great 

 deal to answer for in the matter, were so much afraid of the doctrine of free 

 will, that they absolutely practically denied it in the whole region, both of 

 ethics and religion. I wholly deny that the grace which comes from God to 



