41 



to have separate air service. Now we have a patrol on a forest in southern 

 California and in central California and we have patrols in certain parts 

 of Oregon. So far the aeroplane service has proved valuable and very in- 

 teresting. There are a good many things that the aeroplane can see that 

 you can't see from a signal station. We have also tried the stationary 

 balloon, but a man in an aeroplane which is moving over the ground can 

 see things that the stationary object can't see. A good many people believe 

 that a small dirigible would be a better instrument than the plane, but we 

 haven't had an opportunity to try it. Of course the greatest difficulty that 

 we have is in the remote, undeveloped wilderness where we have no roads, 

 no trains and can't get to the fires quickly after they have been discovered. 



We don't go far enough. We don't accomplish what we start out to 

 accomplish because of lack of funds. I don't know of a state that is getting 

 enough money to carry on protective work. 



THE CHAIRMAN : Do you find any opposition to federal encroachment 

 on state reservations? 



LT.-COL. GRAVES: This plan as I have proposed is assisting the 

 states along these lines. The federal officers are working under the state 

 forestry. 



THE CHAIRMAN: The reason I asked that question is because I 

 have had a small part in the admission of the Smith-Lever act in Illinois. 

 I have been surprised to find how many people there are who are a little 

 bit alarmed at the thought of federal inspectors working instead of the 

 state when the federal government is furnishing large sums of money for 

 vocational education. I wonder if you have found in any of the forestry 

 propositions as you have presented them to us this afternoon, any objection 

 anywhere to federal supervision. 



LT.-COL. GRAVES : I have found no objection as far as I have pro- 

 posed it. I have, on the other hand, found a good many persons who think 

 I do not go far enough. 



PROF. BLAIR : Mr. Miller in his paper this morning, pointed out that 

 in the State of Illinois there are some six and a half million acres of land 

 which might better be used for forestry purposes than for other uses. 

 Now we are not especially interested as a state in the matter of fire pro- 

 tection, but we are interested in the proposition of co-operation. It is now 

 a question of what we must do as a state through the legislature to get 

 the co-operation that we need from the federal government. 



LT.-COL. GRAVES : I'd like to see that incorporated into a law setting 

 forth that principle and appropriating funds which could be used by the 

 Secretary of Agriculture. I would make the law very broad so that 

 he could attend to reforestation and participate in the establishment of 

 nurseries in the state. I would like to see the state of Illinois go a good 

 deal further than they have so far. 



THE CHAIRMAN : I have had a question in my mind as to what those 

 charts are up there. 



MR. PETERS : I might say that they are prepared to show the lumber 

 production in these three states and the men employed, and the relation of 



