86 



MR. SHEPARDSON: There is one kind of land in Illinois which is 

 land which has been on top of coal, where the values from beneath the 

 soil have been extracted and the ground at present lies idle and looks pretty 

 desolated. I have wondered if these tracts would not make good forest 

 reservations. 



LT.-CAL. GRAVES: Mr. Lieber, you said in your paper this morning 

 that you thought that the forest problems of these three states would have 

 to be worked out largely by public ownership. Do you think at the present 

 prices and with the present condition of the state's finances it would be 

 possible to get enough land to carry out that idea of ours? 



MR. LIEBER : That opens a very large subject. It is a matter of 

 figures. If the land goes higher than fifteen dollars or perhaps twenty 

 dollars, it is not practical to do it on that basis. It is a question whether 

 it is possible to buy it outright and make it profitable or whether some 

 other financial arrangement will have to be made. 



LT.-COL. GRAVES: It seems to me that if it is a feasable thing to 

 acquire lands on a considerable scale that it would be a desirable thing 

 for all of these three states definitely to work for a policy of public 

 ownership. I think we should be in a position at this conference to reach 

 a conclusion on a few of the larger points. Colonel Lieber suggested a 

 method of organization between the three states which would form a 

 splendid basis for working out a program. I should like to go on record 

 as being in favor of a policy by these states for the purchase of lands to 

 establish state forests as extensive as conditions will permit. In the work- 

 ing out of the Weeks law of purchases by the government, we found 

 that a good many of the objections were much more easily overcome than 

 had been anticipated. Of course we had a very large country to draw 

 upon which enabled us to secure lands at very reasonable prices. Person- 

 ally, I believe that in the long run if you can embark a policy of that kind, 

 if you don't try to push it too fast, that you will be able in the long run 

 to obtain lands at prices which would be well worth while for the public 

 in the form of receipts or in general public benefits which can be very 

 clearly shown. I believe that you can work it out. 



We have found that every tract that we buy is a center of co-operation 

 and interest in the surrounding country. 



THE CHAIRMAN : From the statements made here regarding Indiana 

 and Illinois, Ohio appears to be radically different. When we first pur- 

 chased tracts of land, we had land we could get from three to five dollars 

 an acre and some from eight to ten dollars an acre. I don't think that the 

 price of lands is going to be any obstacle at all in the way of acquiring state 

 forests in Ohio. 



MR. WILLIAMS : Someone spoke of land from which coal had been 

 removed. Why not purchase only the surface rights? In Pennsylvania 

 we have endeavored to purchase the whole title and up to the present time 

 have done so. 



I think I will also revert to the question of Senator Guthrie raised in 

 regard to the amount of money we are using in Pennsylvania to carry on 

 our forestry work. The fact is that at the session of the legislature in 1915J 



