THIRTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS, 1863-65. 693 



or poor, whether it be a charitable one or one making money 

 on its own account. It seems to me, therefore, the propo- 

 sition is plain. 



But the Senator says that we have refused to do this with 

 the Indians. The difference between our treaties with the 

 Indians and an obligation of this kind is, that an Indian 

 treaty requires us to pay annuities from time to time ; every 

 year we pay so much. It seems to me there is a distinction 

 between the two. Wherever we stipulate to pay these an- 

 nuities in coin, we pay them in coin. There is a difference 

 between the payment of an annuity and the payment of in- 

 te'rest on the public debt ; and that difference has always 

 been recognized since the foundation of the Government. 

 But even if we did injustice to the Indians, we make it good 

 by the payment of large bounties ; we more than make it 

 good by our annual appropriations for the expenses of the 

 Indian department. Since the recent condition of affairs, 

 since we have been involved in war, we have appropriated 

 very large sums, this year amounting to more than a million 

 dollars, for the benefit of the Indians not included in Indian 

 treaties. We have indeed made good to them the appro- 

 priations in gold, or nearly so. If therefore, there is any 

 injustice done to the Indians, it certainly is not a peculiar 

 hardship. 



In this case the proposition was so plain that the commit- 

 tee had no hesitation about awarding the payment in gold 

 from this time forward. I am told that this question has 

 never been acted upon in the Treasury Department, but 

 that if these parties had demanded their interest in gold, 

 precisely as other creditors have done, and as they had a 

 right to do, they would have been paid in coin at any time 

 since the beginning of this war. There has been no dis- 

 tinction in the Treasury Department between this debt and 

 any other funded debt of the United States the interest of 

 which is payable in coin. 



Mr. HALE. If I do not entirely misunderstand the nature 

 of this case, it seems to me there is no force in the sugges- 

 tions which have been made in regard to any obligations of 

 the Government, for this reason: this Mr. Smithson gave 

 this fund, some five hundred thousand dollars or more, to 

 the United States ; they are the beneficiaries of this dona- 

 tion ; it was the property of the United States, and the Smith- 

 sonian Institution, whether it was a wise or an unwise crea- 

 tion of Congress, was simply a machinery instituted by the 

 United States for the purpose of carrying on and carrying 

 out the bequest of Mr. Smithson. To speak of this institu- 



