FOEEST LANDS FOR THE PROTECTION OF WATERSHEDS. 21 



Doctor VAN HISE. Of course, as I understand it, this bill does not des- 

 ignate the particular lines to be selected. It is to be supposed that 

 the Secretary of Agriculture, in case* the bill is passed, would have 

 that selection made by men who best understand the forestry and 

 erosion, and therefore, we think, would select the lands which, upon 

 the whole, are best adapted to this end. I perhaps would not put it 

 so strongly as the chairman and say the lower slopes, but I would say, 

 on the general principle which you have in mind, that this interme- 

 diate area, which combines volume of water and steepness of slope, is 

 the most crucial and dangerous area, and it would be very greatly 

 aggravated and might be worse farther down here were the forest 

 removed. 



The CHAIRMAN. And that area which you speak of as the crucial 

 area is crucial right now because it has been cleared and is used as 

 farming land ? 



Doctor VAN HISE. A part of it is crucial on that account, but there 

 is a lower part that has not been cleared. These steeper slopes have 

 not been cleared. 



The CHAIRMAN. Oh, to be sure, there are places where the crucial 

 slopes have not been cleared; but the ones we are speaking of now, 

 those having the effect on streams are those which are being used or 

 have been used for farming purposes? 



Doctor VAN HISE. Yes. 



The CHAIRMAN. So, if we are going to take possession of them, we 

 must dispossess men who are using them for farming purposes? 



Doctor VAN HISE. I answer yes in every case in which land upon 

 the whole is so badly located that it can not be maintained as a 

 farm successfully, and is better adapted to forestry than to farming. 

 That is the practice we have in Wisconsin. The commission goes 

 to work there and we use our best judgment. We say, " Is this par- 

 ticular tract better adapted to agriculture or forestry?" and studying 

 that particular tract, if we consider its soil, slope, and everything 

 are better adapted to agriculture than to forestry, we sell it for agri- 

 cultural purposes and use the money to buy land suitable for forestry 

 purposes. On the other hand, if the land, by its location, by its 

 character, is better adapted, upon the whole, to serve the State as 

 forest than as farm, we change it into forest, even if it be a poor 

 farm, and we are doing that thing now. 



The CHAIRMAN. You can do that where the land does not belonff 

 to anybody who is making a home on it, but do you not apprehend 

 a little difficulty in securing the land that you would have to acquire 

 from people who have lived on it, and perhaps their fathers before 

 them, for several generations? 



Doctor VAX HISE. We do not pay any attention to that. 



The CHAIRMAN. We are obliged to pay attention to it. 



Doctor VAN HISE. It seems to me, of course, that the interests of 

 the State and the nation are superior to those of the individual. 



The CHAIRMAN. Pardon me. We must bear in mind all the time 

 our responsibilities as legislators; and would you recommend that 

 this committee favorably report any measure which, for its successful 

 carrying forward, must take with it the authority of some govern- 

 ment official to determine whether a given tract of land is more valu- 

 able for forest purposes than for farm purposes, and if he decides 

 that it is more valuable for forest than for. farm, give him the 



