30 FOEEST LANDS FOR THE PROTECTION OF WATERSHEDS. 



would have to bring under the control of the Government, or pur- 

 chase by the Government, practically all of the 75,000,000 acres that 

 is described in that report? 



Doctor VAN HISE. No; I do not agree to that statement, for this 

 reason : I have had the experience myself with the great power of 

 example in educational influence, and I have had to do with trying 

 to get States to cooperate in this very problem Wisconsin, Michi- 

 gan, and Minnesota and we have made great progress up there, and 

 have had a demonstration lesson. The action of Wisconsin has been 

 of great help in getting Minnesota and Michigan to move in the same 

 direction, and I think, as I stated at the outset, that this is so large a 

 movement that the Government, being vitally interested in the water- 

 ways, vitally interested in the harbors, ought to do what it can. 

 Then the States can go forward and do what they can, and the 

 Government and the States must cooperate with reference to fire 

 patrol, and then public pressure must make the individuals feel their 

 public responsibility and make them handle their holdings as public 

 trusts. 



Mr. POLLARD. Granting all that to be true, must we not banish all 

 hope that this can be accomplished by the purchase of 5,000,000 acres 

 in the Southern Appalachians ? 



Doctor VAN HISE. If you mean that the purchase of 5,000,000 

 acres in the Southern Appalachians will prevent altogether this de- 

 structive wash, it is wholly inadequate. However, I have no doubt 

 that with the purchase of 5,000,000 acres to serve as examples to Vir- 

 ginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama we will get 

 those States to go to work and do their part, and it will bring pressure 

 on individuals to do their part. 



Mr. POLLARD. Then I understand that your idea is that if the 

 Government purchases these 5,000,000 acres' in blocks, that that will 

 encourage the States to come in and buy other parts? 



Doctor VAN HISE. My hope is that ; yes. 



Mr. POLLARD. My understanding was that it was a mammoth un- 

 dertaking. We have been lead to believe that the 5,000,000 acres 

 was sufficient, and we have labored under the impression that we 

 should simply take care of these upper watersheds. Now it seems to 

 be developed that it is of greater importance to protect the interme- 

 diate sheds and a portion of the lower sheds. This report of the 

 Secretary, where it refers to the 5,000,000 acres, simply covers the 

 upper sheds, so that these intermediate slopes and the lower slopes 

 are not taken into account at all in his estimate of 5,000,000 acres. 



Doctor VAN HISE. I confess a lack of familiarity with the details 

 and recommendations of the Secretary of Agriculture, and I did not 

 understand that there were any definite lands recommended. I 

 understood that if there was money appropriated for the purchase 

 of the 5,000,000 acres experts would go and find out where they had 

 best be purchased, leaving them free to select the most pressing and 

 crucial a pens, which will, on the whole, do the most good in the way 

 of educating the States and individuals in the way of preventing 

 erosion. I fear that I have taken too much time. 



The CHAIRMAN. It was at our request, and we are very much 

 obliged to you. Governor, will you allow me to ask you a question 

 before you introduce anyone else? 



Governor GUILD. Most certainly. 



