FOREST LANDS FOB THE PROTECTION OF WATERSHEDS. 33 



where the state of affairs has gone beyond that, and in those cases I 

 have no doubt in the world that there should be public ownership; 

 whether of the States or of the nation is a question to be decided by 

 the relative powers of the two governments, state and national, to 

 acquire those tracts of land. My own State has done something, 

 other States are doing more, toward that end. But I apprehend that 

 you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of this committee, will agree with 

 me when I say that it is more than a state issue. It is a question 

 which applies in the Appalachians, to California, and Oregon. I 

 believe thoroughly and heartily, gentleman of the committee, in the 

 question of cooperation as between the individual States and the 

 nation, but there are certain occasions, and"! believe that those have 

 been arising in the Appalachians and also in the White Mountains I 

 know they have arisen in my own State where it is not a question of 

 cooperation between the Government and the private ownership, but 

 public ownership, either of the State or of the nation, shall be 

 acquired. 



Mr. POLLARD. Will you describe those conditions, Governor ? 



Governor PARDEE. When the forests have been cut and burned 

 extensively, where great waste is going on, where the streams have 

 filled up, where the harbors at the mouths of those streams are filling 

 up and have filled up, then the strong arm of the Government should 

 come in, either of the State or of the nation, and take charge of that 

 affair and see that it is absolutely stopped. 



Mr. POLLARD. May I ask you a question? 



Governor PARDEE. A dozen. 



Mr. POLLARD. I take it, Governor, that all of those who favor the 

 preservation of these forests are not so much concerned about the 

 means as about the end. It is the end that we are seeking to attain. 

 That is, we want to accomplish the preservation of the forests and the 

 uniformity of the stream flow, rather than to be wedded to any par- 

 ticular method. 



Governor PARDEE. Yes, sir. 



Mr. POLLARD. It is the end. 



Now, t then, this committee has been led to believe that the only 

 manner by which the Government can either supervise or purchase 

 the desired land is under that provision of the Constitution which 

 gives Congress jurisdiction over commerce, and the Judiciary Com- 

 mittee holds that the only lands that we could buy, even it we want to 

 go out to purchase lands, would be those lands that had a direct bear- 

 ing on navigation, and that other lands were out of the question. I 

 am not a lawyer, and it does not matter to me whether you and I 

 agree to that or not, but that is the opinion they have handed down. 

 Inquiry develops, to my mind at any rate, this fact, that if the 

 Government can go and buy a tract of land for the purpose of aiding 

 navigation by the preservation of the forests on the rivers, it can also 

 go in under the same constitutional power and regulate the manner 

 in which the private owners shall control that land, so far as it has 

 a bearing on navigation, and that the same constitutional authority 

 gives the right to do one as it does to do the other. Why can not the 

 Government, if that be true, exercise a supervision over such a tract of 

 land as you have described, just as well if it bears on navigation in one 

 case as the other? 



72538 AGR 09 3 



