34 FOREST LANDS FOR THE PROTECTION OF WATERSHEDS. 



Governor PARDEE. Would that not, in very many cases, be practical 

 confiscation ? 



Mr. POLLARD. The bill to which I refer provides for payment in 

 such cases. 



Governor PARDEE. Then, practically, the Government is buying the 

 land. 



Mr. POLLARD. If the damages cover the value of the land, yes. 



Governor PARDEE. And it must, in those cases, because otherwise 

 the land can not be used for any purpose to which the owner has 

 been in the custom of using the land, and therefore it is confiscation. 



Mr. POLLARD. In that case the Government would have to pay 

 for it. 



Governor PARDEE. Which is a practical purchase by the Govern- 

 ment of the land. 



Mr. POLLARD. Practically so. 



Governor PARDEE. I have no doubt in the world but what there 

 should be the cooperation, but speaking with due humility for my 

 own State, the State of California, and I presume that other States 

 are in the same condition, especially the newer States are very slow 

 to move in those matters; but it is for the benefit of the Eastern 

 States that the State of California shall take up those matters, and 

 if the State will not take it up the Government itself shall take it up. 



Mr. POLLARD. What objection would there be to a plan like this : For 

 the Forestry Department of the Government, under the direction of 

 the President, to make a survey of the forest land, say, in the South- 

 ern Appalachians and the White Mountains those are the mountains 

 in question here and determine what portions of them should be pre- 

 served as forest reserves, and then, by proclamation, to bring them 

 under the supervision of the department ? Then the Government goes 

 out to supervise those lands. The question at once arises as to whether 

 they have a bearing on navigation, and if it is so held, under the deci- 

 sions of the Supreme Court, I think the Government has the right to 

 regulate those lands without any question, just as much as they have 

 the right to purchase them in the first place. 



Governor PARDEE. Undoubtedly. 



Mr. POLLARD. Why would not a plan of that kind reach the object, 

 accomplish the object we are seeking to accomplish, and obviate the 

 necessity of purchase ? 



Governor PARDEE. It would not accomplish all we have to reach, 

 for the reason that down in the lowest parts there is land that is in 

 deep trouble, land that is being denuded of its soil, having been 

 already denuded of its vegetation. 



Mr. POLLARD. Would that not come under the terms of the law, if 

 it were shown that it interfered with navigation ? 



Governor PARDEE. Then, would the United States go in and spend 

 money on private property? 



Mr. POLLARD. It would not spend any money there. 



Governor PARDEE. Then how could it regulate it? 



Mr. POLLARD. It would simply prevent the owner from using the 

 land in such a way as to excite this erosion. 



Governor PARDEE. Therefore take his right of living on the pro- 

 ceeds of that land away from him and leave him to starve. Confis- 

 cation, it seems to me, is the absolute result of that proposition car- 

 ried to that end under those conditions. 



