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HORTICULTURAL SOCIETY OF NEW YORK. 



use the product of such a flower. But I saw flowers of begonias recently in a London 

 nursery as large as a rose; magnificent things they are. Comparatively few of them have 

 yet been distributed. They sre of very great value indeed from the horticultural stand- 

 point. In Southern France recently I was noticing the gardens of some horticulturists. 

 It is frequently stated that the rose La France produces hybrids, but I was assured that 

 that was not the case; that La France is quite barren. The great rose raisers say that 

 they have tried for years and years, and that La France is quite sterile, although it is 

 stated in many catalogues that new varieties have resulted from La France. 



W. J. Spillman: There is one very interesting consideration connected with plants 

 of some of the kinds mentioned in this paper. The most interesting example of what 

 I wish to speak about is perhaps the apple, but on account of the long time required to 

 get seed of the apple, it is almost impracticable to work out the suggestion with the 

 apple. But I will use the apple because I am more familiar with it than I am with some 

 other plants. It is generally conceded, I think, that with almost all apples that are grown 

 under ordinary conditions, the seed may be called hybrid seed, many times hybridized 

 possibly. Now, if Mendel's law applies to seedling apples; if we should segregate an 

 apple tree iri order that it should be certainly close-fertilized and save the seed from that 

 tree and plant it, it would split up into distinct types according to Mendel's law. It 

 would be exceedingly interesting to see what types occur in the apple, and we might find 

 something of a great deal more value in the way of new apples by that means, and per- 

 haps fix a type even that would be propagated true to type if self-fertilized. In this paper 

 there was nothing to indicate whether the gentleman who had performed this large num- 

 ber of hybridizations was working with the first generation, which no man on earth can 

 predict, or was working with the second and third generations, which we can all predict. 

 I would like very much to know whether or not the plants were first generation plants 

 or second or third generation plants from close-fertilized hybrids. I believe that there is 

 a field of work there, particularly for florists, to take these plants that are multi-hybrids, 

 whose parents were hybrids, whose grandparents were hybrids, segregate some of them, 

 and see what comes of them, see what tynes they split up into. If Mendel's law is true, 

 they certainly will split up into types that can be definitely predicted. 



The Chair: Does Mr. O'Mara know whether these roses or carnations were first or 

 second or third generation plants that Mr. Hill describes? Presumably the first gen- 

 eration. 



P. O'Mara: I am not quite certain that I quite catch the point. That is, were the 

 crosses made from unnamed seedlings or from varieties already in commerce? 



W. J. Spillman: No; perhaps I might explain a little more fully. If you take two 

 distinct varieties, two varieties that propagate true to seed, and cross them, nobody can 

 predict what the result will be in the first generation; but if you will take the seed of 

 that hybrid and grow it, it is possible to tell what it will produce: that is the point I 

 wanted to make. Now, here is a breeder trying to produce a given plant. He crosses 

 two plants, and the plant which comes from that disappoints him; it is not what he 

 wants. But if he should take the seed of that plant and plant it and grow plants from the 

 seed of that plant, the next generation will probably greatly surprise him and not disap- 

 point him. 



P. O'Mara: I think I would be safe in saying that Mr. Hill experimented exclu- 

 sively with named varieties of roses which have been so crossed and recrossed that it 

 would take a very long tracing to find out where they started from. But it is a new 

 line to me; I don't profess to know anything ^articular about the subject of hybridiza- 

 tion; but it is a new idea to say that saving the seed of the variety so produced would 

 be certain to produce an accurate result which could be gauged in advance. I am in- 

 clined to think that the seed saved from that variety would be just as apt to disappoint 

 the raiser as the cross obtained Dy this fertilization. That is as far as I know on the 

 subject. 



The Chair: That was all definitely settled yesterday, Mr. O'Mara. 



P. O'Mara: Well, it is a good thing to have something settled, to settle an old 

 question that way. The question that Mr. Nicholson brings up is a very interesting one 

 to me, and that is the question v/hether or not La France is sterile. 1 know that we 

 introduced several roses, two or three, I think, raised by Mr. Hill,. and he gives the 

 parent as La France in two cases. I didn't question it. I assumed that he knew just 

 exactly what he was saying, but it is a very interesting point, and the first time I see 



