836 



THE AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 



Dec. 31, 



Proceediugs of the Illinois State Bee-Keepers' 



CoQveutiou Held in Chicago, Nov. 18 



and 19, 1896. 



BY A SPECIAL BBE JOURNAL REPORTER. 



LCoQtinued from page 819.] 

 MAKING HONET-VINEGAR— IS IT PROFITABLE ? 



Dr. Miller — How many here have ever tried anything in 

 the way of making honey-vinegar? [Five.] How many of 

 these five have ever made anything of profit out of it '? [Four.] 

 I wanted to see whether we were losing time talking about 

 this, but from the few who answer in that way, we are not 

 losing time in talking about honey-vinegar. 



Mr. Ellis — My grandmother, in my early days, started me 

 to making honey-vinegar, and it was the finest vinegar we had. 

 It is over 30 years ago, and I have seen others, away back 

 East there, connected with those old families where the grand- 

 mother's knew almost everything that was to be known, and 

 they did the same. 



Mr. Grabbe — How many gallons of vinegar will one gallon 

 of honey make ? 



Mr. Ellis — I never got that down to a fine point,but I should 

 think it would make more than 15 gallons — I was going to 

 say 20. 



Mr. Cooley — How long does it take ? 



Mr. Ellis — Five or six weeks. 



Dr. Miller — I think I learned more yesterday than I ever 

 did about vinegar before. I spent two hours in the company 

 of a man who uses a great many hundred barrels of vinegar. 

 He uses vinegar enough to put up all the cucumbers that can 

 be raised on a thousand acres of ground. His name is Staf- 

 ford. He said : " I can buy as good vinegar as can be made, 

 and it will do as good work— it will keep pickles — for 2 cts. a 

 gallon." My first thought was, "If that is the case, there is 

 no use to talk about honey-vinegar." Not very long after that, 

 I think he told me there was some vinegar they cannot get for 

 less than 60 cts. a gallon. That is from across the ocean ; but 

 that is on account of its flavor. There are two things — one the 

 keeping quality, and the other the flavor. People talk about 

 vinegar being strong and eating- the pickles ; but the stronger 

 the vinegar the better it keeps the pickles. People will pay a 

 good, big price for flavor. Mr. Cowan speaks in British Bee 

 Journal about a market for his honey-vinegar, and if people 

 are willing to pay for flavor, there is an outlet for it there. 

 With regard to the amount, I think you are putting it pretty 

 high if you say 15 gallons from one. It depends upon the 

 kind of vinegar you want. Mr. France says you must have 

 about three pounds of honey to a gallon of water. I think Mr. 

 Cowan puts \}i pounds to a gallon of water. I am not talk- 

 ing from experience. All my experience is in a jug, and it has 

 been going for more than five weeks now. There is another 

 thing, if you put three pounds to the gallon, it will take a long 

 while to make it. For table vinegar, you want a milder article 

 than you do for pickling vinegar. You must not have the very 

 strongest kind for table. 



Mr. Cooley— Does poor honey, or honey-dew, make good 

 vinegar ? 



Dr. Miller— No, sir. I have read a good deal and have 

 been trying to inform myself. My impression from that is, 

 that the best quality of honey is none too good for making vin- 

 egar. The point that has been made is, that you can have 

 the best quality of honey in a shape that could not be sold — 

 the rinsing of cappings — but as it is not salable, it would sim- 

 ply be thrown out, but it will make the very best vinegar, be- 

 cause what little honey there is in it, will be the very best 

 kind ; so I think it will pay everyone of us to make the experi- 

 ment. 



Mr. York — I think the Dadants got 30 cts. a gallon for 

 their honey-vinegar. Dr. Mason said he had nine barrels of 

 honey-vinegar. He gets 20 cts. a gallon for it, and probably 

 the reason he doesn't get more is because he doesn't ask it ! 

 There is no question about Its quality. If the Dadants get 30 



cts. a gallon, it is very cheap, because theirs will stand diluting 

 50 per cent. 



Dr. Miller — Just let me read a few words from the last 

 number of the British Bee Journal on this subject: 



"Mr. Cowan said that when bee-keepers obtained honey 

 of very dark color and inferior quality, such as would not have 

 any chance of securing a market, the next best thing to do 

 was to turn it into vinegar. He had tried some experiments in 

 making vinegar from Mr. Bancks' recipe, and found little or 

 no difficulty in producing a very excellent vinegar — better, as 

 the grocers told him, than their white wine vinegar. He had 

 received Is. lOd. per gallon, a price that paid very well ; and 

 when they knew that vinegar could be made from honey which 

 in the ordinary course would not fetch more than 2d. to 3d. 

 per lb. — to say nothing of fermenting honey, which would 

 hardly realize anything at all — they would agree that when X)4 

 lbs. of honey made a gallon of vinegar, it must pay well for the 

 making. In making vinegar the first step was to mix honey 

 with water in the proportion he had mentioned. The liquid 

 was then placed in a cask ; after which some ferment must be 

 added, prepared vinous ferment being the best, but ordinary 

 yeast might be used. In his own case the cask of liquor was 

 put into a warm cupboard in the kitchen, where it remained a 

 couple of months, until it began to sour, and, once acidification 

 began, it went on very rapidly, until in two months and three 

 weeks from first mixing, the vinegar was ready to be clarified 

 with isinglass. This was done, and a fortnight later it was 

 ready for market. He thought if that plan were carried out 

 there would not be much difficulty in disposing of honey for 

 which there was no sale otherwise." 



Mr. Lyman — I have had some experience in honey-vinegar, 

 and also in cider-vinegar. I wish there was as good a demand 

 for honey as there is for good vinegar^it would not take long 

 to sell all that is raised, but making the vinegar from honey- 

 dew, won't do. I tried it as an experiment, and the peculiar 

 flavor or odor of honey-dew will last for two or three years. 



Dr. Miller — Years ago, I did try to make some vinegar out 

 of honey-dew, but it was not a good thing. 



Mr. Baldridge — I have from 10 to 15 gallons of honey- 

 vinegar nearly all the time. When you speak about putting it 

 in a jug to make, I don't think that is advisable. I make all 

 of mine in an open cask, and keep it open, exposed to the air. 

 I don't have a bit of trouble in making the very choicest of vin- 

 egar. I have never sold a great deal of vinegar, but what I 

 have sold, I have always got 25 cts. a gallon for it, and those 

 who have used it prefer it to anything they can get. 



Mr. York — I think if you asked more, you could get it ! 

 (Laughter.) 



Mr. Baldridge — I think I could. 



SELLING GRANULATED EXTRACTED HONEY. 



Ques. 9. — Should we put extracted honey on the market in 

 a candied condition ? 



Mr. Schrier — No. 



Dr. Miller — How many say we should put honey on the 

 market in a candied form ? [None.] How many say we should 

 not put extracted honey on the market in a candied state ? 

 [Five.] Some one give me a reason in either direction. 



Mr. Ellis — I watched Mr. Walker (of Michigan) last year, 

 and I think he makes a pretty good standard when he handles 

 tons of honey. He melted it all. He was in a place where 

 they had these old-fashioned steam pipes, and he had the 

 honey in five-gallon cans on top of the pipes ; then he had two 

 men canning that. Now he sold it at wholesale for six cents — 

 wasn't it ? 



Mr. York — Unless he sold it in large quantities, I think he 

 charged eight cents, when in 60-pouud cans. 



Mr. Ellis — He melted it all. What he would have done 

 in large lots I do not know. It was all melted and put into 

 cans. Then my own experience, more than 20 years ago, I 

 found I could not have sold it all without melting it. When I 

 sold it I would either have it labeled, or if disposing of it to 

 anyone in a retail business, I would have a label stating that 

 it would candy, that it had been melted or warmed, and that 

 they could expect, if it was kept long enough, it would all get 

 back into the candy form, because otherwise it will be a great 

 disappointment. 



Mr. York — I think it is a great mistake to put honey on 

 the market in groceries, that is candied. In talking with the 

 buyer that I referred to, he said that some customers would 

 bring back honey that granulated, thinking it was sugar, i 

 think Mr. Grabbe, also Mr. Walker, exchange honey that is 

 granulated. When they call on a grocer to see if he is entir- 

 ely out, they take back the candied and leave the liquid honey. 

 I have sold honey to one grocer whom I educated in that line, 

 and he simply liquefied it himself. I think it is very impor- 



