484 



i'HE AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 



REPLIES by Prominent Apiarists. 



Flat-Bottom Foundation. 



Query, No. 9-J. — Will bees chang-e the 

 base of tlat-bottonj foundation before dniwitlK it 

 out? or after drawing it out will they fill up the 

 corners with wax, or let it remain with a flat base ? 

 —Burlington Co.. N. J. 



G. M. DooLiTTLB says : " My expe- 

 rience says that they change the base 

 in using it, so they must of necessity 

 thin it. This is why I prefer the flat- 

 bottom foundation for sections, for 

 with the natural base, bees often 

 simply add their wax to the founda- 

 tion, leaving that untouched as far as 

 thinning it is concerned; hence the 

 complaint of ' fish-bone' center." 



W. Z. Hutchinson answers : " Af- 

 ter the flat-bottom foundation isdrawn 

 out, the base of the cells will be found 

 stiaped like the base of natural comb ; 

 how this change is effected, I do not 

 know." 



G. W. Demakee replies : " I have 

 never used any foundation with ' flat- 

 bottom,' except some thin foundation 

 in section-boxes. With the thin foun- 

 dation, but little or no alteration was 

 made at the bottom of the cells, so far 

 as I could discover." 



J. E. Pond, Jr., remarks : "I have 

 never used flat-bottom foundation, for 

 the reason that I do not think it is in 

 accordance with the laws governing 

 comb-building. Undoubtedly a tliin- 

 ner base can be formed flat than 

 natural by machinery." 



James Heddon says : '.■ They usu 

 ally change the base, but l)y whai 

 process I have never experimented 

 carefully enough to know." 



„.., .UUKJiM Dajo. • -I. inrj non- 

 ally change the base, but l)y what 



process I have "■ '"^ 



carefully enough 



PnoF. A. J. Cook answers: "I 

 have used but little of this kind of 

 foundation, and liave not observed 

 anything relating to the matter." 



Ghas. Dadant & Son say : " We 

 have never used flat-bottom founda- 

 tion, so we will let others speak." 



Dk. G. L. Tinkeu replies: "In 

 drawing out both the iieavy and the 

 light foundation, the bees manage to 

 get the cells properly shaped at the 

 bottom. It is never left with a flat 

 base." 



Drawing out Foundation. 



Query, No. !).">.— It being conceded that 

 bee» HI I themselves with honey bef«ire th -y swarm, 

 it must be apparent tnatillhis honey is fi>rmed 

 intij wax belure tfey are put upon a new stiind. 

 this wax iBKli lust by hiving theui up.pn lull sheets 

 of Inundation; if not, what do the tees do wun 

 this honey wulie drawiuK out tlie loundatiou 1-U. 



James Heddon answers : " All the 

 honey that bees contain when swarm- 

 ing would make but little wax. Some 

 honey is needed to support tliem while 

 drawing out the foundation, and any 

 excess can be stored as fast as the 

 foundation is diawn out. Bees, if 

 crowded for room previous to swarm- 



ing, often swarm with wax scales, and 

 these are sometimes used to build the 

 tops of the combs beyond the breed- 

 ing depth. Such scales are not com- 

 monly found on many bees that are 

 siipplied with proper room before 

 swarming, especially if run for ex- 

 tracted honey." 



Chas. Dadant & Son reply : "We 

 suppose that bees can draw out the 

 foundation while they are full of 

 honey. The proof of it lies in the fact 

 that foundation will be already partly 

 drawn out in less than 2 hours after 

 hiving an ordinary swarm." 



W. Z. HuTCniNsoN says: "It is 

 not apparent to me that the honey in 

 formed into wax before the bees are 

 put upon a new stand. Can it not be 

 possible that the honey is retained in 

 the tiouey-sac until the foundation is 

 sufiiciently drawn out to allow the 

 honey to be deposited V I am, this 

 season, hiving a part of my swarms 

 upon foundation, and a part upon 

 empty frames, hoping thereby to de- 

 cide which course is advisable." 



G. M. DooLiTTLE remarks : "That 

 is exactly what I believe. If founda- 

 tion is used in the brood-chamber, use 

 only starters in the sections, and they 

 will use their wax there ; or if foun- 

 dation is used in the sections, let them 

 build comb below, a la Hutchinson. 

 This item is worth looking after." 



Pkof. a. J, Cook answers : "This 

 honey is to feed vitality and all vital 

 functions. The strength it gives goes 

 to wax only when wax is needed. If 

 we supply to our bees either founda- 

 tion or combs, I can hardly find exam- 

 ples to show the wax scales to my 

 class ; take away all combs, and soon 

 nearly every bee will show the wax 

 scales. Wax is secreted only when 

 needed, as a usual thing, though con- 

 finement and disturbance will also 

 induce its secretion." 



Dk. G. L. Tinkeu replies : " Ac- 

 cording to my observation, bees are 

 unable to make a comb from the ordi- 

 nary heavy foundation, with full 

 depth of ceils, witliout the addition of 

 moie wax. AVithout using more wax 

 they may draw it out so as to be one- 

 lialf an inch thick. They go right on 

 secreting wax just the same whether 

 hived on foundation or not." 



G. W. Demakee says : " Jiees, as 

 a general rule, do HU their sacs with 

 lioney when they swarm, but there 

 are exceptions to the rule, as I have 

 several times in my experience seen, 

 yea 'felt.' For when tliey do forget 

 lo Mill up,' you will hear "from Ihem 

 and feel tliem, too, wlien you set 

 about hiving them. When 'out 

 empty,' they will sting anybody or 

 anythina;. Bees not only fill their sacs 

 full of lioney wlien they swarm, but 

 tliey make preparation for comb- 

 building several days in advance of 

 the issuing of tlie swarm. When foun- 

 dation is used in tlie brood-depart- 

 ment, if you want to compute the 

 • loss and gain,' you should cliarge tlie 

 expense side of your account with lost 

 linney equal to the cost of the founda- 

 tion. "Thus if your foundation costs .jO 

 cts. per lb., in jfish, add the price of 



the lost honey (wax) to it, and your 

 foundation, in fact, costs you $1.00 

 per lb.'' 



J. E. Pond., Jr., remarks : " The 

 above question is one that can only be 

 answered theoretically. We know that 

 grass grows, and we know also that it 

 assimilates food in so doing ; the why 

 and how we know not. I have seen 

 quite a quantity of comb, or wax, at 

 least, left on the limb of a tree where 

 a sw»rra had remained only an hour 

 or two after clustering, before being 

 hived. It is fair to suppose that little 

 excess of wax will be found unutil- 

 ized." 



Dk. C. C. Miller says : " Some of 

 the honey may be deposited in the 

 cells. It may all be needed to finisli 

 the combs, foundation only making a 

 part." 



Eight or Ten Frame Hives? 



Query, No. 96 — 1. Messrs. Hutchinson 

 and Heddon, on page 3c«, say that a queen costs 

 almost nothing, but combs and hives do; hence 

 they prefer crowdmi; their queens for room and 

 not get their full laying capacity developel, and 

 save two combs in each hiye. I believe that it 

 should be just the other way. Which had these 

 two gentlemen ralliar take out of a hive at any 

 time in the breedinj'-season, the queen or two dry 

 combs? 



:2. Mr, Heddon, on the same page, says : " What 

 Is the price or worth of th.at l<ind of eggs ?" Does 

 he mean that eggs are worthless, or that a hive is 

 just as well off for lioney with only 5n,(nio worlters 

 as with isii.ixn) ? I believe that the stronger a col- 

 ony is, the more honey we get. provided we give 

 them room for it.— Critic. 



James Heddon answers : "This is 

 a very important subject, and needs 

 considerable space to clearly show the 

 reason why Adam Grimm, and many 

 other successful honey - producers, 

 changed from 10 to 8 Langstroth frame 

 hives, I will herewith send an article 

 on the subject for the Bee Journal." 



W. Z. Hutchinson replies: "I 

 can only repeat what I said before— 

 queens cost practically nothing, combs 

 and hives do. I prefer to have my 

 hives of such capacity that an ordi- 

 nary queen will keep the brood-nest 

 full. I do not wish to run the risk of 

 having a frame or two of dead capital 

 in each of the hives. I do not under- 

 stand what is meant by the last sen- 

 tence in the first paragraph. 



" One hundred and fifty thousand 

 bees will store as much honey when 

 divided into 3 colonies of 50,000 each, 

 as when united into one colony occu- 

 pying a hive 3 stories high. I give my 

 strong colonies plenty of room in 

 which to store their honey, but 7iot in 

 the brood-nest." 



Convention Notices. 



t^~ The Western N. Y. and Northern Pa. 

 Bee-Keepers' Association will meet at Sala- 

 manca, N. Y., in Odd Fellows' Hall, on Sept. 

 1 and 2, 1885. A. D, Jacobs, Sec. 



t^~ The Cortland Union Bee- Keepers' 

 Association wilt hold a basket picnic at tlie 

 ajjiary of Mr. Miles Morton, at Groton, N. Y., 

 on Tuesday, Auff. 18, 188.j. All bee-keepers, 

 with their families, are cordially invited to 

 be present. W. H. Beach, Sec. 



iST' The ne.xt meeting of the Northwestern 

 Illinois and Southwestern Wisconsin Bee- 

 Keepers' Assooiatiou will be held at Hock 

 City, Ills., on Aug. 2.3, 188.'). 



J. Stewart, Sec. 



