314 



NATURE 



\_Feb. 8, 1877 



ment of Dr. Bastian, in exceeding the point of saturation, even 

 sensibly. ^ 



The conclusion of my reply of July 17 last is then unassailable, 

 consequently it is not accurate that Dr. Bastian has found the 

 physico-chemical conditions for the spontaneous generation of 

 bacteria. 



We have examined experimentally, with not less attention, 

 all the other points treated by Dr. Bastian in his papers of July 

 31 and August 21, subsequent to his original note of July 10. 

 We are prepared to discuss them, but as they might distract 

 attention from the main point of the debate we shall return to 

 them later if convenient. One thing is of importance at the 

 present moment, to know if Dr. Bastian is still convinced 

 that urine, exactly neutralised by potash, yields microscopic 

 organisms. 



What we have said on the influence of solid potash may 

 be repeated for liquor potassce after it has been raised to 110°. 

 But we wish to reply to-day to Dr. Bastian solely by the facts 

 relative to solid potash, which suffice by themselves alone to 

 condemn the conclusions which he has deduced from his experi- 

 ments. 



The reader will doubtless remark that in the preceding abstract 

 we have scrupulously avoided introducing the word germ and 

 opposing a doctrine to a doctrine. We have to do with a fact : 

 Yes or no, does urine which has been boiled so as to be sterile, and 

 better still, fresh, natural urine, just from the bladder, not having 

 been submitted to any preliminary boiling — does this at 50° yield 

 organisms after having been neutralised by potash ? Dr. Bastian 

 says yes, and this is his pretended great discovery. We say no, 

 and we demonstrate by proving that Dr. Bastian would have 

 obtained a result absolutely contrary to that which he published 

 if he had made use of the substance KO,HO, which alone, in 

 cases when it is pure or only associated with mineral matters in 

 small quantity, has the exclusive right of being called potash. 



The following reply to the above by Dr, Bastian was read at 

 the Paris Academy, January 22 ^: — 



At the seance of the Academy of January 8 ^M. Pasteur, in 

 conjunction with M. Joubert, contributed another "Note sur 

 I'Alteration de I'Urine," in reply to the last communication which 

 I had the honour of submitting to the Academy at its seatice of 

 August 21 of last year. 



It may, perhaps, be permitted to me to state that an account 

 of my researches on the fermentation of urine, much fuller than 

 what has appeared in the Comptes Rendus, is now to be found in 

 the Proceedings oi \hs. Royal Society No. 172, 1876 ; and to this 

 paper I would particularly call the attention of all those who are 

 interested in the question of the mode of origin of Bacteria and 

 other related problems. 



I have found, as stated in an earlier communication to the 

 Academy, that previously sterile urine, when exactly neutralised 

 by boiled liquor potassse (of the British Pharmacopoeia) will 

 rapidly ferment and swarm with Bacteria, if the mixed fluids 

 are maintained at a temperature of 50° C. M. Pasteur, after 

 repeating my experiments with certain variations, said {Compt. 

 Rend., July ly, p. 178): **Je m'empresse de declarer que les 

 experiences de M . le Dr. Bastian sont, en effet, tres-exactes ; 

 elles donnent le plus souvent les resultats qu'il indique." He 

 then explains why he differs from me as regards the interpreta- 

 tion of these experimental results. It is somewhat confusing, 

 therefore, to find M. Pasteur now saying in his most recent com- 

 munication : * ' une seule chose importe en ce moment, c'est de 

 savoir si le Dr. Bastian est toujours convaincu que I'urine neu- 

 tralisee exactement par la potasse donne des organismes micro- 

 scopiques ? " My reply is simple. M. Pasteur has implied {J.oc. 

 cit. p. 179) that solid potash heated only to 100° C. does lead to 

 such an effect ; I, however, have made no experiments with 

 solid potash, though, in operating with the boiled liquor potassas 

 already named, I have many times obtained the result indicated, 

 and am quite prepared to demonstrate to others the fact of the 

 occurrence of fermentation in urine under these conditions. 



In using solid potash M. Pasteur departed from the conditions 

 of my experiments in a way- which was wholly needless. It will 

 be found much more convenient for others to repeat them exactly. 

 Seeing that a strong solution of potash in suitable quantity can 

 be easily heated in a closed glass tube to the temperature which 



' It is not useless to say here that, contrary to what is generally admitted, 

 urea in aqueous solution or in urine is decomposed at loo* (J. and even 

 at temperatures much lower. The product of decomposition is carbonate 

 of ammonia. 



=» On the Fermentation of Urine; Reply to M. Pasteur. By Prof. H. C. 

 Bastian. 



M. Pasteur desires (110° C), there is absolutely no reason for 

 substituting solid potash as he has done. The liquor potasses 

 used by me has always been procured from Mr. Wm. Martin- 

 dale, of 10, New Cavendish Street, London. 



In his "Note" of July 17, the interpretation given by M, 

 Pasteur of my results was that the liquor potassse used by me 

 immediately after it had been heated to 100° C. induced fer- 

 mentation in the urine because it contained living germs not 

 killed at this temperature of 100° C, but which would have 

 been killed had the potash solution been heated to 110° C. M. 

 Pasteur has strangely understood my meaning if he thinks, as he 

 now intimates, that I have not contested the legitimacy of his 

 reasoning. I am very far from regarding it as "irreproachable," 

 and that for reasons which I have previously given. If, how- 

 ever, I have not been able to make myself understood it will 

 be well for me to repeat the reasons on account of which I 

 still absolutely reject M. Pasteur's interpretation. They are 

 these : — (i) It js to me incredible that a fluid so caustic as the 

 strong liquor potassse which I have employed could contain 

 living germs after it has been raised to 100° C, and it is not too 

 much to ask that he who makes such an assertion should prove 

 it ; (2) that liquor potassse {wlicft added in proper quantity to the 

 tirine) is just as efficacious after it has been heated to 1 10° C. 

 as when it has only been heated to 100° ; (3) the decisive proof 

 that liquor potassse previously heated to ioo° does not induce 

 fermentation in sterile urine by reason of its containing living 

 germs, is to be found in the fact that the addition of one or two 

 drops of it only (when much more would be required for neu- 

 tralisation), subsequently leaves the urine as barren as if no 

 solution of potash had been added ; whilst if the liquor potassse 

 really induced fermentation in the cases mentioned above (2) 

 because of its containing living germs, then one or two drops of 

 it would always suffice to infect any quantity of sterile urine to 

 which they may have been added. 



In his last communication to the Academy, M. Pasteur 

 says : — " La question se trouve done limitee a la connaissance de 

 ce point : — Ai-je fait autre chose que de remplacer la potasse en 

 solution par de la potasse fondue, et notablement, ai-je depasse 

 le point de saturation de I'urine, et y a-t-il quelque inconvenient 

 a le faire? " To these three questions I reply as follows : — (i) 

 Yes, too much potash was also added ; (2) Yes, in those experi- 

 ments in which you obtained negative results, you expressly 

 state that potash was added in quantity sufficient to render the 

 fluid "alcaline" Compt. Rend. t. Ixxxiii. pp. 179 and 377; (3) 

 Yes, according to my experience, any amount of potash beyond 

 what is sufficient to neutralise the urine in its unboiled state is 

 decidedly prejudicial to the inducement of fermentation, and I 

 have especially cautioned experimentalists on this subject (see 

 Proceedings of Royal Society, No. 172, pp. 152 note\, and 155. 



I would also call M. Pasteur's attention to the fact that in his 

 last communication to the Academy, as printed in the Covipt. 

 Rend, for January 8, on the two occasions on which he professes 

 to describe my experiment, he does it inaccurately. Thus, on 

 p. 65, lines 2 and 3, and also on p. 66, in the sixth line from the 

 termination of his note, he omits to mention the important fact 

 that the added liquor potass^ was previously boiled. 



Further discussion between M. Pasteur and myself seems to 

 me in the present phase of the question to be almost useless. 

 Certainly, no good can come from our alternate enunciation of 

 opposite experimental results, when precisely the same methods 

 have not been had recourse to. For my own part I am per- 

 fectly ready to reproduce before competent witnesses the results 

 of which I have above spoken ; or, failing this opportunity, I 

 shall also be content patiently to await the ultimate decision of 

 other properly informed fellow investigators, both here and on 

 the Continent, as to the correctness of the facts which I have 

 had the honour of announcing to the Academy. 



J OH ANN CHRISTIAN POGGENDORFF 



SCIENCE has lost one of her most diligent and 

 devoted servants by the death of Prof. Dr. J. 

 C. Poggendorff, in Berlin, on January 24. He was 

 born in Hamburg on December 29, 1796. The early 

 deaths of both parents forced him at a comparatively 

 tender age to engage in the rougher conflicts of life ; a 

 circumstance which, however, contributed in a great 

 measure to the rapid development and maturity of his 



