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[yu/y 21, 1887 



out the standards. These are some of the recommenda- 

 tions with which the present Bill proposes to deal. I think 

 I am not taking too sanguine a view of this scheme 

 when T say that it will carry out all those proposals. The 

 object of the Bill is to ennble local authorities to provide 

 for the establishment of technical schools or to assist in pro- 

 viding them, and also to give local authorities power 

 to supplement existing teaching in elementary schools by technical 

 instruction, whether by day or evening classes. There will also 

 be a proposal in the Bill with regard to the ratepayers, to whom a 

 power of vetoing any proposal under the Bill will be given. We 

 propose that the Bill should be administered by the Science and 

 Art Department — that is to say, that it should be administered 

 subject to the directorate of that Department. We also propose that 

 the Bill should have the limitation that no scholar should come 

 under its operation until he has reached the sixth standard. The 

 authorities for administering the powers conferred by the Bill 

 will be School Boards where they exist, and where they do not 

 exist town councils. I should just like to refer to Clause 4 of 

 the Bill. To make the Bill acceptable to the ratepayers you 

 must show that it is a cheap Bill and that consideration has been 

 shown for them. Clause 4 is what I may call the operative 

 clause of the Bill, and it enables local authorities to provide 

 technical schools. Of course that would involve expense in 

 building ; but there is a sub-section of Clause 4 which enables 

 the local authority to combine with any other local autho- 

 rities. This will enable a system of combination to be adopted 

 which will prove a great saving to the ratepayers ; and, 

 further, the next sub-section provides that the local autho- 

 rity may contribute towards the maintenance or provision 

 of any technical school which has been established by any 

 other local authority. It is further intended to include a 

 provision that local authorities shall be empowered to rate for 

 the purpose of supplementing any existing institution. These, 

 I think, the House will admit are provisions which will enable 

 this Bill to be worked cheaply. A further sub-section gives the 

 local authority power to make any arrangements it may deem 

 necessary or expedient for supplementing the technical instruc- 

 tion at present given in the schools. This provision I consider 

 one of the most valuable in the Bill. It will enable technical 

 instruction to be at once given without putting the ratepayers to 

 any expense in building. I should like to refer for a moment to 

 the limitation to the sixth standard. Though this will neces- 

 sarily exclude many children, I think all interested in education 

 will admit that the Bill should apply to the pick of our scholars, 

 and that a good educational foundation should be required. 

 With regard to the question of agricultural instruction, I am free 

 to admit that the Bill, as drawn, can extend that instruction 

 only to a very small extent, but I believe that the measure is 

 capable of very considerable development, and that under cer- 

 tain of its sub-sections agricultural instruction may be afforded 

 to a satisfactory extent. It is proposed to insert a provision in 

 the Bill that where any local authority passes a resolu- 

 tion to establish a technical school a certain proportion 

 of the ratepayers may demand a poll, but I am 

 here at once met with a difficulty with regard to 

 the metropolis — namely, that it is very wrong to propose 

 to bring into existence the enormous voting power within 

 the metropolis for such a purpose by this Bill. It may- be 

 asked how I propose to protect the ratepayers of the metropolis 

 in regard to this matter. I have a proposal on the subject which 

 has been drawn up by the Vice-Chairman of the London School 

 Board, the hon. member for Worcestershire, and which has 

 received the approval of the Chairman of that Board. I 

 believe, from all I can gather, that that proposal will be popular 

 with the present I>ondon School Board, and that it has been 

 accepted by the hon. members for the metropolis who have been 

 consulted in this matter, on the understanding that this policy 

 alone will be carried out by the London School Board until the 

 next election. I believe, also, that this proposal will be 

 approved by the ratepayers of the metropolis. I have been 

 asked by the hon. member for Worcestershire whether 

 the scheme would not involve an extra charge for building, and 

 I have been able to assure him that it will not do so. Therefore, 

 Sir, I am prepared to admit that the members for the metropolis 

 must be considered in this matter. Of course, if they think 

 that further security to the ratepayers will be necessary it 

 will be possible to insert an addition to this clause in the Bill to 

 the effect that no action with reference to this Bill shall take place 

 until after the next School I'oard election. I believe it would be 



a mistake to do anything of the kind ; I believe that the interest 

 of the ratepayers and of the great mass of working men in the 

 metropolis may be safely trusted in the manner proposed by the 

 Bill. Then, Sir, I may be asked this question, which, I think, 

 is a very pertinent one. It is true that a vast amount has 

 already been expended in the cause of technical instruction, and 

 I may be asked: "If you once establish the principle of 

 rating, will you not check the principle of voluntary effort?" 

 I believe we shall do nothing of the kind, for several reasons. I 

 believe that this will be an essentially popular measure among 

 the working classes. I believe it will be impossible to check 

 voluntary effort in a cause such as this where you supplement it 

 by rates, for I believe that those who are spending money volun- 

 tarily are doing it in a cause which they know to be a very 

 vast one, and that for all sums of money whenever spent in this 

 cause more than compound interest will be repaid as the result. 

 There are numerous instances in regard to this matter. It 

 was only the other day I noticed that in Lambeth the Public 

 Libraries Act was adopted. That is a case in point. What 

 was the result there of adopting the principle of rating? I 

 noticed that at the concluding meeting held, when arrangements 

 were to be made for this new library under the system of rating, 

 the hon. member for Barrow-in-Furness, who was in the chair, 

 announced that a friend of his had not only given the ground 

 but was going to build the whole library at his own cost. 

 Numerous instances of the same type have come under my notice. 

 Therefore I do not think we ought to dread that the establish- 

 ment of voting power will check in any degree voluntary effort. I 

 have only one other point to deal with — the administration of 

 this Bill. We propose that this Bill shall be administered by 

 the Science and Art Department at South Kensington. I have 

 been anxious that the Bill should be so administered, for there 

 we have a Department whose educational capacity has been 

 thoroughly well tested. I have heard some hon. members 

 attack the results of South Kensington as rather expensive. I 

 am anxious that the House should be in a position to judge of 

 the actual yearly expenditure at South Kensington, not only as 

 regards administrative expenditure, but as regards its results. 

 By the leave of the House, I shall therefore lay upon the table 

 a document that will show in a concise form the actual ex- 

 penditure at South Kensington for five years, both as regards 

 administration and as regards results. Hon. members will then 

 see how vast an increase there has been as regards payment by 

 results and how small has been the increase of administrative 

 expenditure. I should like to read to the House what that 

 Department is now doing with regard to science and art. During 

 1886-87 there were 1936 schools or separate institutions in which 

 instruction was given in one or more branches of science. 

 There were 6976 classes in different branches of science, 

 and the number of individual students under instruction was 

 100,419. At the May examination 127,900 papers were sent up 

 for examination to South Kensington. I should like also to give 

 some more instances to show the vast strides made in chemical 

 instruction. In chemistry, 21,085 papers were worked at exami- 

 nations. To show the advance made of late years in the facilities 

 afforded for instruction in science of a thoroughly practical and 

 experimental character, it may be mentioned that thirty years ago 

 there were only one or two places where students could obtain 

 laboratory instruction in chemistry, and that at very high fees. 

 The Royal College of Chemistry, established in 1845, ^^^ one 

 of these. Another was soon after started in Craig's Court. Now 

 there are 234 chemical laboratories in connexion with the Science 

 and Art Department in which students can obtain laboratory 

 instruction at very low fees. There were 4257 separate benches 

 at the last examination which afforded accommodation for 16, 15S 

 candidates. In the last session there were in operation 234 schools 

 of art and 626 art classes, with 71,132 students in them; 

 50,000 were examined in May last, and the number of papers 

 worked was 75,678. I should not for one moment have attempted 

 to put the administration of this Bill under the Department of 

 Science and Art at South Kensington if I had any doubt of its 

 ability to work it with efficiency and economy. I thank the 

 House for the attention with which it has heard me. I need 

 not go again through the details. Happily this cannot be re- 

 garded as a party question. It is one which interests members 

 on each side of the House, and although I do not submit the 

 Bill as covering all the ground of technical instruction, I do 

 believe that it is a measure which will do an enormous amount 

 of good to our industrial population. In conclusion I would 

 urge that, if it were only for the two provisions alone with 



