ARGUMENT OF SIR JAMES WINTER. 925 



SIR JAMES WINTER: Yes. 



SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK: And that, in self defence, they had to 

 resort to the same fishery 



SIR JAMES WINTER : Yes. I suppose that is the way they would put 



it that in self-defence they resorted to the same fishery; with this 



qualification, however, which I think is important and should be 

 borne in mind, that the United States Case does not stand even upon 

 what I may term as favourable a footing as that, in this way, that the 

 prosecution of the herring fishery which the United States fishermen 

 wish to carry on is not a herring fishery for the purposes of bait at all. 



SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK: No. They want to enter your waters 

 and compete with you under the terms of this treaty in the prosecu- 

 tion of the herring fishery for commercial purposes? 



SIR JAMES WINTER: Yes; for commercial purposes. That is the 

 trouble. 



SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK: That is not the trouble. That is the 

 right. 



SIR JAMES WINTER : That is what they claim as their right. That 

 is the cause of the difficulty between the two countries. The herring 

 fishery business which was carried on before this trouble arose in 

 1005 was not a fishery for the purposes of bait. Besides the right 

 to come down and purchase fish for bait in Newfoundland waters, 

 the American fishermen also had another privilege, under license, 

 under which they came to the Bay of Islands in the winter months to 

 purchase herring not for the purposes of bait, but for the purpose 

 of export to the United States as a commercial article. 



SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK: For the purposes of trade. 



SIR JAMES WINTER: Yes. And when that business was stopped 

 by the Newfoundland legislature in 1905, it was then that the ques- 

 tion arose which is now substantially before the Tribunal as an issue 

 between the two parties, as to whether or not the Americans, the 

 American fishermen, under their treaty have the right to come in 

 and catch herring in unlimited quantities on the treaty coasts, not for 

 the purposes of bait, but for the purposes of sale as a commercial 

 article in the United States. 



JUDGE GRAY : But have they not that right under the treaty ? Have 

 they not that right? 



SIR JAMES WINTER : We claim not. We claim that under Question 

 6, which will be before this Tribunal 



JUDGE GRAY: I mean, to catch the fish themselves? 



SIR JAMES WINTER : No ; we claim that they have not. 



SIR CHARLES FITZPATRICK : On the coasts they have. 



JUDGE GRAY: On the prescribed coasts the treaty coasts? 



SIR JAMES WINTER: Question 6 in this case brings up that very 

 question, and that turns upon the question, whether or not the 

 Americans have the right to go into the bays 



