964 NORTH ATLANTIC COAST FISHERIES ARBITRATION. 



SIR JAMES WINTER : No, Sir. That is the same question still. 



DR. DRAGO: I am only asking: did the British fish in creeks, har- 

 bours and bays? If that is so, Americans were allowed to enter 

 them too. 



SIR JAMES WINTER: There is no evidence that they fished in these 

 bays, creeks and harbours on the part of the coast in question, or used 

 them ; and, with respect, I submit that they did not use them for fish- 

 ing, because of the facts that I have stated, that they did not go there 

 to fish. There was no fish for them there to catch. They used the har- 

 bours, they may use the harbours and frequent the harbours, and go 

 in and out of the harbours. There is no doubt about that. That is 

 perfectly clear ; but the same question, as to whether they ever caught 

 fish anywhere except on the coast, still remains. 



THE PRESIDENT: Does not the following part of article 3 of the 

 treaty of 1783 give the sense ? The treaty of 1783 says : 



"And also that the inhabitants of the United States shall have lib- 

 erty to take fish of every kind on such part of the coast of Newfound- 

 land as British fishermen shall use, (but not to dry or cure the same 

 on that island), and also on the coasts, bays, and creeks of all other 

 of His Britannic Majesty's dominions in America." 



In this context does it not appear that, according to the treaty 

 of 1783, the American inhabitants had the right not only to fish on 

 the coasts, but also to fish in the bays and creeks, not only of all 

 other of His Britannic Majesty's dominions in America, but also in 

 the bays of Newfoundland ? I think the word " also " indicates this 

 sense. 



SIR JAMES WINTER: No, Mr. President. With all due respect, no. 

 For the two reasons that I have already given, or endeavoured to give, 

 with regard to the treaty of 1783, and that is in this same treaty, the 

 very words that you have read, that when you deal with the creeks 

 and bays of all other of His Majesty's dominions in America, 

 578 the terms " coasts, bays, and creeks " are used ; they are given 

 there expressly ; but they are not given in Newfoundland, the 

 only expressions used being " coast " such part of the coast of New- 

 foundland as British fishermen shall use. The same distinction, 

 whatever reason there was for it and evidently there was some 

 reason is made between Newfoundland and the other dominions in 

 America, where the bays and creeks are expressly mentioned. The 

 same ambiguity is in both treaties; that is very clear. If it is an 

 ambiguity at all, the same ambiguity is in both, and the same dis- 

 tinction is taken; but for a very much stronger reason is the dis- 

 tinction taken in the case of Labrador under the treaty of 1818. 



The reports of the negotiators themselves, the exchange of their 

 papers, their drafts from day to day as the negotiations went on, 

 and the facts and circumstances as they then stood, will help con- 



