ARGUMENT OF JOHW S. EWART. 1387 



837 MR. EWART : I understood from Senator Turner's argument, 

 which I took to be an amplification of the position taken by the 

 United States in its printed Argument and Case, that Great Britain 

 had abandoned its sovereignty 'pro tanto, and that the American citi- 

 zens were not in any way amenable to that sovereignty when in 

 British waters that American sovereignty followed them into Brit- 

 ish waters. That I understand to be in their printed Argument, and 

 to have been developed, so as to leave no doubt as to the attitude of 

 the United States, by Senator Turner. 



JUDGE GRAY : Then do you understand that the result of the posi- 

 tion taken, and the argument made by the United States, was that the 

 completeness of the liberty granted by the treaty of 1818 was such 

 that it admitted of no derogation from it, whether reasonable or un- 

 reasonable, in the opinion of the granting power ; and that, therefore, 

 if that position was maintained, all legislation or regulation would be 

 invalid or without authority, that undertook to touch the very sub- 

 ject matter of the treaty that is, the very act of fishing? 



MR. EWART: Yes, Sir. 



JUDGE GRAY : The position to which both parties would then be re- 

 duced if, after adoption of the treaty and in the years following, it 

 became 'manifest that some regulation was reasonably necessary in 

 order to preserve the fishing and promote its productiveness, or what 

 not, would be that such regulations could not be adopted by Great 

 Britain, but that the two parties would be compelled to adopt some 

 modality to that end, to use a word with which we have become 

 familiar? 



MR. EWART: Yes, Sir. 



JUDGE GRAY : That is. that that was not contemplated, or within the 

 four corners of the treaty of 1818, and that the necessary result of 

 the completeness and fullness of the liberty granted was that there- 

 after, if it should be thought that that treaty should be in any wise 

 affected, diminished, impaired, or derogated from in the interest of 

 the fishing rights themselves, it would have to be done by a modality 

 agreed upon by the United States and Great Britain, either in the 

 form of a new convention, or in the form of any other mode of agree- 

 ment by which the ends sought could be achieved. Is not that the 

 position the United States take ? You understand I am not express- 

 ing any opinion about it. but am merely asking whether that is your 

 understanding of the position of the United States. 



MR. EWART: I understood it almost in the language which you 

 have used. Sir. I have understood that that is the position of the 

 United States, that no derogation shall take place from the treaty 

 itself. That, so far, is also our position. They, however, take it 

 that any regulation at all would be a derogation from the treaty. 



JUDGE GRAY : Exactly. 



