CANADIAN FORESTRY ASSOCIATION 75 



plucking the good timber instead of plucking the poor and giving the good timber a 

 chance to reproduce itself There is a danger of going too fast in either direction. 

 It was only a short time ago that we thought we ought to get rid of these cheaper 

 timbers at all hazards, but the experience of the last few years has shown us that it 

 was a good thing that we had not the chance to destroy them in such haste. We could 

 not get 50 cents stumpage ten years ago for elm, and to-day we can hardly get elm at 

 and pays continuously. To be sure small concerns have paid now and then, 

 $10 a thousand. As regards the utilization of these other timbers I would say this : 

 That our experience in the States has not been vast. To be sure we have carried the 

 tanneries into the hemlock forest. The tanneries have left New York State and 

 Pennsylvania and gone to Wisconsin, for instance, rather than ship the hemlock bark, 

 or even attempt the matter of extracting it. As regards alcohol, from hardwood, our 

 experience across the way seems to be that it requires quite an outlay before it pays 

 and pays continuously. To be sure small concerns have paid now and then, 

 but the latest efforts are in the direction of concentration. We have in Cadillac, 

 Michigan what we call a mill acid plant. The Cummer people have there a sawmill, 

 and in connection with the sawmill an acid plant. That thing is really a paying 

 institution and it is doing beautifully, and anyone interested in an establishment of 

 that kind could hardly do better than go there. They have all modern appliances, 

 use gas and tar for fuel right under the retort. As I say, our experience has not been 

 vast. Of course we have the ordinary charcoal oven, and have a little deviation from 

 that, including the charcoal oven and pipes for converting the vapours into acids. But 

 I notice that the small concerns have to shut down whenever there happens to be a 

 little fluctuation in the price of their output. While I believe myself a great deal 

 can be done in the direction of carrying small plants to the forest, I cannot say that 

 we in the States have been especially successful in that direction. In general, I would 

 say this : Do not be hasty in trying to get rid of timbers that simply seem to be useless 

 at the present day. To-morrow may tell us that they are valuable. On the other hand 

 Mr. Bertram is right. If you want a pine forest you must give the pine a chanco 

 to grow. 



Mr. JOLY DE LOTBINIERE. I would like to know how that part of your Act which 

 prohibits the exportation of logs from Canada is working. It seems to me that there 

 is a door open for an evasion of that provision. You do not prohibit the export of 

 your logs to the province of Quebec, and does not that leave th'e door open to get rid 

 of the staff to the States, which you are trying to avoid here ? What if they 

 shipped pulpwood, for instance, to the province of Quebec, and then shipped it from 

 there ? Have you any control over that ? Can you stop them from doing it that 

 way ? If it were not I do not say it is possible but could they not drive your logs 

 into the province of Quebec, and from there export them to the States ? I would like, 

 if possible, to have some information on that subject, whether that has been con- 

 templated, and if evasions have been indulged in by lumbermen and pulp manufac- 

 turers, &c., to get rid of this material in this way. 



Mr. WHITE. I was going to say, Mr. Joly, that the only place where anything of 

 that kind could occur would be in the way you mention, through the province of 

 Quebec. But as a matter of fact, we know they do not export any saw-logs that go 



