62 



THE AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 



Jan. 26, 190S. 



Mr. Hall — I am quite satisfied that I have a better 

 way than Dr. Miller has. I have a Lewis foundation fast- 

 ener. I don't see why any other machine that has a hot 

 plate could not be adjusted to work the same as the Lewis 

 machine. The Lewis machine is reversible. You can ad- 

 just it to put in the starter in three-inch sections or four- 

 and-a-quarter. I take that plate out of the machine to 

 the grinding stone and grind it till it has a sharp-cutting 

 edge on each side, not that the edge is intended to cut 

 but in order when you come to let it pass through the 

 foundation it will pass through as leisurely as possible. 

 In the next place I take the base box off which is just be- 

 low where the hot plate is. I let that down just enough 

 to make a little more room between the bottom of the sec- 

 tion where it is in the machine and where the hot plate 

 comes out. I let that down just as much as I want the 

 bottom starter to be in the section. Then I cut a couple 

 of finger-ways 'out of the head-block. Sometimes the 

 foundation is inclined to fall away from you when you 

 want to take the section from the machine, and by having 

 the finger-way you can put your finger around and touch 

 it slightly and that will hold it from tumbling away from 

 you. You have got the machine all ready for work. Put 

 the section into the machine, put in the foundation just as 

 if you were going to have a foundation in without any 

 starter at all. After it is stuck then insert the hot plate 

 agam, and that sharp edge will pass through the founda- 

 tion so easily that you will wonder how it is done. That 

 will leave the bottom starter standing there. All you 

 have to do is to pull the section off again and turn it end 

 for end, and put it back again and put the balance in there 

 for the top starter and your work is done. 



Dr. Miller — I believe I was the first one that started 

 the bottom starter. One of the advantages of the bottom 

 starter is that you are sure that the bottom of the starter 

 will be in the middle. Another reason is that you are 

 sure the section will be fastened to the bottom. In many 

 cases if the honey is not coming in plentifully, especially 

 towards the close of the season, a section will have a pas- 

 sage-wav under it, and that bottom starter prevents every- 

 thing of that kind. In other words, that bottom starter 

 gives you a section fastened in all round. Before I used 

 bottom starters, very often I had the starter swing clear 

 off and fasten on to the separator, and it took me three 

 or four years to find out why. I hadn't sense enough to 

 know It was that bottom starter that held it there and 

 didn't allow it to swing over the side. 



Mr. Johnson — Do you save any foundation? 

 . Dr. Miller — No saving of foundation at all. 

 Mr. Johnson — Do "ou make the two ends meet? 

 Dr. Miller — No, there is a space of one-eighth to a 

 quarter of an inch between the two starters, and one of 

 the first things the bees do is to fasten them together. If 

 you put the foundation down near enough to the bottom 

 so that it is fastened to the bottom it is sure to bulge to 

 one side, and by cutting out enough to put two pieces in, 

 the bees will make it fast at the top and bottom without 

 any bulge or bend. 



Dr. Bohrer — How wide do you make the bottom 

 piece? 



Dr. Miller— Five-eighths of an inch. 

 Mr. Gill — In answering the question, "Can you save 

 any foundation?" I think you can by using a bottom 

 starter. You can secure very good combs by using a half- 

 inch or five eighths starter at the bottom, about an inch 

 above, because frequently the bees will commence on that 

 bottom and go up to the center. If a person wants to save 

 foundation he can do it by using the bottom foundation, 

 because the bees will fasten those places together where 

 they meet. 



Dr. Miller — The question asked me was, do I save 

 any foundation? I say I don't. You can if you want to. 



Prof. Benton — As a matter of fact you really lose by 

 the amount that it takes to fasten the bottom starter. 



Mr. Gill — You can secure combs fastened well at the 

 bottom by putting on the starter and pulling it right 

 off again, leaving one-half row of foundation cells there 

 and invert it. 



Mr. Hershiser— Dr. Miller, as I understand, says he 

 does not "make both ends meet." I thought he had been 

 a successful bee-keeper! [Laughter.] 



Mr. Dadant— Mr. Coppin, of Illinois, has a way of put- 

 ting in a full sheet of foundation which does away with the 

 trouble in regard to foundation sagging or leaving a space 

 at the bottom. He splits the section in two in the center; 



lays two sections side by side on the table or four halves, 

 and lays a sheet of foundation upon them and puts the 

 other four halves on top and fastens them together. That 

 gives a full sheet fastened on all four sides. I never 

 saw such honey as that presented by Mr. Coppin, it was 

 so regular. 



Prof. Benton — That practice has been followed in 

 England for many years. 



Dr. Miller — There is one objection to that, and that is 

 that the outside of the section shows the split, and it is not 

 so good looking a section. 



Mr. Root — The method is English now, and very sim- 

 ilar to the one described, only that the section has a 

 groove cut almost through lengthwise and the foundation 

 is dropped in between the grooves and the dovetail 

 fastened together. We are selling annually hundreds of 

 thousands of them to the British trade. We don't sell any 

 of them in this country. I know our bee-keepers in this 

 country would not bother with anything of that kind. 



Dr. Miller — As a matter of curiosity will you allow me 

 to say when Mr. Root was so small he didn't know any- 

 thing about sections, we had the same thing in this coun- 

 try. They were made with that groove in the top-bar. 

 That is the first kind of sections we had in this country, 

 and they were a big nuisance. 



Mr. Root — It was a square groove and slot around the 

 section. 



Mr. Sampson — This is my plan, if you could see it, for 

 cutting the foundation in the section. I fasten the points 

 together in the center, and I have very good results. The 

 sections are always well filled and I never have any 

 trouble. 



Mr. Hall — I have tried in a small way by doing the 

 same thing Mr. Root speaks about. Take twenty or thirty 

 sections and place them together and rip them three quar- 

 ters of the way through the section from end to end, leav- 

 ing the bottom part of the section under it and putting 

 them together, leaving that groove, but. as he said, they 

 were a regular nuisance. I can put in 2,000 sections the 

 way I do it. 



FASTENING SECTIONS IN FRAMES. 



Dr. Bohrer — A great many bee-keepers ask me as to 

 what I regard as the best plan of fastening comb founda- 

 tion in shallow extracting frames. The grooves in most of 

 the frames sent out are very shallow; and there is a wedge 

 that the companies use. What is the best method of 

 fastening comb foundation in shallow frames? 



Mr. Hall — Get a common machine oil-can, one that has 

 a good deal of spring in the bottom, put a short snout on 

 it or cut the one off that is already on it. Then have a 

 frame to put the extracting frame into so that there will 

 be a little board just to fit the inside of the frame that will 

 come just half way up or half the depth of the frame, 

 right up to the edge of the groove. You must keep that 

 can filled with a mixture of beeswax, and I put a slight 

 bit of rosin in it to make it a little harder. I put the 

 frame on this other frame, slip the foundation into the 

 little groove, take the little oil-can which is sitting on the 

 foundation fastener to keep it warm. You don't want it 

 too hot because if it is it will melt the foundation, and if 

 it is too cold it will freeze in the nozzle of the can. When 

 you get the foundation into the little groove turn the 

 frame up slightly so that the weight of the foundation will 

 fall into the groove and stay there. Take the can and 

 run down a little drop on the end of the foundation and 

 right down to the bottom. Then tip it the other way and 

 let it run back to cool, and then take it off, and thus con- 

 tinue until it is finished. 



Mr. Abbott — We have wedges in all our frames and 

 don't need any oil-can. 



Mr. Miller — May I say that it is a matter of locality. 

 Mr. Abbott is entirely right; in proper localities there is 

 nothing better than the wedge; I wouldn't want anything 

 better than the ordinary wedge that is sent out, but other 

 bee-keepers say they do not stay in. 



The President appointed the following permanent 

 press committee: J. M. Hambaugh, of California; H. H. 

 Hyde, Texas; James A. Stone, Illinois; Frank Rauchfuss, 

 Colorado; E. S. Lovesy, Utah; Prof. H. A. Surface, Penn- 

 sylvania: O. L. Hershiser, New York; J. C. Stewart, Mis- 

 souri; Frank Benton, Washington, D. C; E. Whitcomb, 

 Nebraska: E. Secor, Iowa; Dr. G. Bohrer, Kansas; F. W. 

 Muth, Ohio, and J. J. Cosby, Indiana. 



