120 MY LIFE 



spiritualist, they were very agreeable acquaintances. Through 

 them I was introduced to the other occupants of the table — 

 Judge Holman, with his wife and daughter. The judge was 

 . member of Congress, as representative of Indiana, and we 

 had sometimes long conversations at breakfast or dinner on 

 political questions. One of the most interesting was about 

 the Irish in America. He said, "Why does your Government 

 drive the Irish out of their country by not letting them govern 

 themselves? We find them among our best citizens when 

 they have a chance. I have known and observed them for 

 fifty years. Near me, in Indiana, is a township which was 

 settled about forty years ago by Irish and Germans, all Catho- 

 lics. The Germans have increased in numbers, the Irish have 

 diminished by emigrating further west and other causes. Many 

 of the Irish have become public men of eminence, and many 

 others rose to good positions. Those that remain farmers 

 cultivate their land as well as the Germans, and show equal 

 industry. Considering the low class of Irish that usually 

 come over, and their extreme poverty as compared with the 

 Germans and other immigrants, it cannot be said that they 

 are at all inferior in industry and in success in life. That is 

 the general experience all over our country. They form a 

 valuable portion of our citizens, yet you English will have it 

 they can't govern themselves, and make that an excuse for 

 keeping them down and driving them to emigrate." That is 

 the substance of his remarks, which I noted down immediately ; 

 and as he was a highly intelligent man, and a good example 

 of the moderate American legislator, his opinion seemed to me 

 especially valuable, and should make our "Unionists' (as 

 they call themselves, but they are really "gaolers") pause in 

 their endeavours to perpetuate the subjection of people who 

 are in every respect as good as themselves. 



But to my mind, the question of good or bad, fit or not fit 

 for self-government, is not to the point. It is a question of 

 fundamental justice, and the just is always the expedient, as 

 well as the right. It is a crime against humanity for one 

 nation to govern another against its will. The master always 



