Mr. fiixxnivMNT,. — Do you ship bulls to the old country 1 A. Yes. 



Q. Rave you any difficulty with them I A. No. they get so fat that tley are not inclined 

 to be disagreeable. 



Q In shipping to Montreal <!<> you send them the same as the others, or do you tie them np ? 

 V. We t'"e them up, l>ur more as a sort of leverage — to help them keep their feet. 



Q. Have you had any of your men hurt in handling bulls ? A. No, not in the past nine- 

 teen vears. 



Mr Gibson. — It is claimed that more cattle could be put into cars without horns? K. I 

 believe they could. 



Q. Why ? A. Because they could be packed better. 



Mr. Drury. — In gathering up cattle, if you put two or three different lots into one yard, 

 would you expect that there might be trouble ? A. Well, if them was die or two vicious ani- 

 mals it would create confusion, but. T have never seen much serious harm from that. 



Q. Would there not be a good < I * a] of contention to see which was master ? A. Just after 

 putting tli* m into the yard there might be a little fighting, but they soon settle down. 



Mr. Macpherson. — Would you consider that a vicious animal would be improved by de- 

 horni t;? A. 1 would recommend the death of the animal rather than dehorning. 



Q. Have you had any experience as to the effect of dehorning upon the disposition of a 

 vicious animal ( A. No. 



Q. Suppose the animal was not i:i lit condition to kill ? A.I would tie him up until he 

 was. 1 would neither have part nor parcel in dehorning. 



Mr. A. J. Thompson was then called and sworn : 



Mr. Drury. — You are a shipper of live-stock to the old country, Mr. Thompson I A. Yes. 



Q. An '. you have been engaged in this business for a number of years ? A. Yes, since its 

 commencement in 1875. 



Q. You have had opportunities of observing the conduct of animals in transportation by 

 land and sea ? A. Yes. 



Q. You have heard Mr. Frankland's evidence. Do you agree generally with the position 

 he has taken ? A. There are some points I hardly agree with. With regard to muley cattle, in 

 the old country, I think there is a preference for them with some buyers. 



Q. Is that fur fat or store cattle ? A. For fat stock. We had a 1 t of muleys that we 

 kept entirely separate from the others, and I found that they sold for more than the others. 



Q. Was that on account of the breed, or no horns? A. Because of no horns, I think. 



Q. Are you speaking of the Polled Angus, or the artificially polled cattle ? A. Of the 

 naturally polled — occasional bullocks just as we came across them in the fall. 



Q. Would there be any advantage in shipping if the horns were off? A.I think an extra, 

 bullock could be put into a car. 



Q. But is there not an element of danger from the horns themselves ? A. It makes no dif- 

 ference on vessels, because they are all tied up, but where cattle are fed loose, of course the 

 po led cattle are the safest. 



Q. Would you expect much damage from strange cattle meeting in a small yard ? A. 

 Well, for the first time they occasionally have a little row, but I have never seen any very big 

 set-to. We frequently have cattle break their horns through getting them caught in the side of 

 the car I have a North-west bullock now, last fall it got both its horns injured, and we cut 

 them off. It has done splendidly since and is a grand bullock to-day. 



Q. Who performed the operation? A. Just the men in the stable. 



Mr. MACPHERSON. — In this case did the animal show any symptoms of not eating ? A. 

 Wt 11, he ate all right, but for some weeks he didn't pick up very well. 



Mr. Gibson — Is he a better steer to-day than if the horns had not been taken off? A. 

 I could not tell that. 



Q. ( ompared with the others ? A. He has made more improvement than the cattle that 

 came in with him in the fall. 



To Mr. Drury. — In buying a number of steers would you consider that dehorning would 

 increase the general .fineness _>f the animal ? A. I could not tell that. I have seen a few two- 

 year-old cattle fr. m the North west whero the horns had been cut off an inch or an inch and a 

 half from the base of the head, they appeared to be well developed, but they were unsightly. 



Q. There Mas a stub? A. Yes 



Q. Do you think it is a right thing if the proportion of advantage is considerable, to indict 

 this Buffering ? T >ko emasculation, for instance, you consider that justifiable ? A. Yes. 



Q. Then, on the same principle, do you believe that man is warranted in inflicting pain if 

 the gain is sufficient to justify it ? A. I would think so. 



