10f> 



and don't see the evidences of pain. Don't you agree that pain will give indications of its 

 presence P A. Well, under certain circumstances, I can understand an animal being so com- 

 pletely intimidated that she remains in a sort of dazed condition. 



Q. For the purpose of showing the interest involved could you give us an idea of the costs 

 in the recent trial ? A. I gave my services gratuitously, then there was $114 paid in witness 

 fees, and another $100 was expended, chiefly contributed by private parties. 



Q. Would you say that this practice might be a matter of permission under proper 

 regulations I A. I would say that if the practice were being permitted, it would be most desir- 

 able that there should be certain regulations as to how it should be done, and under what circum- 

 stances ; bur of course I say this without committing myself that it is something that ought to- 

 be permitted. 



Humane Society Deputation. 



The following gentlemen were then introduced by Mr. Kelso as a deputation from the- 

 London Humane Society : The president, Mr. Perrin, Rev. Dean Innes, Rev. Canon Davis and 

 Mr. Talbot MacBeth. 



Rev. Dean Innes said : Wearenot here, gentlemen, to give evidence or to seek to urdulyinflu- 

 ence any decision that may be arrived at. We feel quite certain that your decision will be influ- 

 enced by the evidence submitted to you and not available to us, and we are sure that you will give 

 a decision based upon the best interests of humanity. We desire, of course, that if this practice is 

 permitted it should be surrounded with such conditions that it will only be practised under proper 

 regulations, by persons properly qualified and with instruments suited for the purpose. If 

 it must be done there should be such safeguards as will render it as little painful to the animals 

 as possible. 



Mr. Druey. — Do you suggest that the operation ought to be performed by a professional 

 man I A. The idea of our society is, 1 think, that if performed, it ought to be by parties pro- 

 perly qualified. 



Mr. Drury. — We have enquired of the largely-interested parties in this case as to whether 

 they themselves would object to certain restrictions, and with one exception all have said that 

 they would have no objection. They say, however, we would object to be bound to secure the 

 services of a professional man, but ff a statute were passed it might be made plain that the 

 operation should be performed by a person capable of doing it properly and surrounded by safe- 

 guards calculated to prevent needless pain. 



Rev. Dean Innes. — I think that would embody the views of the Humane Society. In many 

 instances it might be impossible to obtain the services of a regular practitioner or veterinary 

 surgeon, but if dehorning is decided to be desirable and necessary in the interests of the farmer, 

 as w r ell as for the safety of the cattle, it ought to be performed in such a way as will not inflict 

 unnecessary pain. 



Bev. Canon Davis. — Gentlemen, we are thankful for the opportunity of expressing our 

 views, though we may differ of course on this question. I am afraid that if it is left in that way 

 everyone and anyone will think himself capable of performing the operation. We know that in 

 regard to man, it is a medical practitioner, authorized by law, who amputates a limb. We believe 

 there must be pain in taking off a horn, as there would be in taking off a finger, and it does seem 

 to me that the veterinary surgeon, who understands the entire anatomy would be the most cap- 

 able man. I have seen cattle a good deal in the country, and I have observed great pain when 

 a horn is accidently knocked off. I am decidedly opposed to the idea of dehorning, but if it 

 should be necessary to have it done, we desire to point out, that although God has committed the 

 dumb animals to man for his use, it is not his right to inflict unnecessary pain. Therefore, we- 

 consider that if the practice is permitted, it should be done as carefully and with as little suffering 

 as possible. I desire to add also, that the reason why our Humane Society did not back up Mr. 

 Hutchinson, in prosecuting the recent case, was because we were in our infancy, we had no 

 experience in such matters and we had no money in the treasury. It was not, I assure you, 

 through any lack of sympathy with him in the stand he took. 



Mr. Pekrin. — I have nothing further to add, gentlemen. I thank you on behalf of our 

 Society for the kind hearing you have given us. 



Mr. MacBeth. — There is one point I would like to speak of. as to the possibility of this 

 operation being performed with less pain during the infancy of the animal. As a member of 

 the Humane Society, I think I might ask that the Commission give due consideration to this 

 feature of the question. 



On behalf of the Commission, the chairman promised a careful consideration of the points, 

 raised, and the dej>utation withdrew. 



