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Q, Mr. York said that lie would be willing to pay fifty dollars per year for the right to 

 dehorn, you don't think that should be considered in settling this question ? A. No, his views 

 are naturally one-sided, as he was brought up for doing this. If 1 could see that the amount 

 of pain inflicted by animals upon each other, would equal the amount of pain of the operation, 

 then 1 might modify my views. It seems hard to punish the innocent with the guilty and 

 remove the horns of thirty or forty because one or two are vicious. 



Q. Do you consider that castration and spaying are justifiable 1 A. Yes. 



Q. Why is spaying justifiable ? A. Well, if you are feeding these animals you lose a certain 

 amount of profit. 



Q. But you say that an increased money value should not be considered 2 A. Well, spay- 

 ing is rarely done. 



Q. Now, in the case of spaying, if it improved the meat would you consider that justifi- 

 able i A. No . 



Q. How about docking lambs' tails ? A. That is different from dehorning. The tail is 

 cartilage ; you can cut off a pup's tail without his hardly feeling it. I think the castration 

 of lambs and cutting tails is justifiable, and the pain isn't to be compared to dehorning. 



Q. Is it not true that nature begins to heal at once where there is an injury ? A. Yes, 

 lymph is thrown out and the part becomes sealed over gradually. 



Toronto Humane Society. 



A deputation was then received from the Toronto Humane Society, consisting of Messrs, 

 S. G. Wood, W. A. Sims, Mervyn MacKenzie and George Taunt. 



Mr. Sih.s said : Gentlemen, you have been hearing a good deal from the financial, com- 

 mercial and surgical point of view, and we want to present the humane or aesthetic side, for we 

 are afraid that in the clash of other interests the humane aspect will be left out or forgotten. We 

 are interested in securing the humane treatment of cattle in transportation and in the stock 

 yards, and the kind treatment of animals generally. We think that in doing this, we are 

 advancing the best interests of the country. We are glad that the Commission has been 

 appointed, and that it is composed of practical men like yourselves, but we want you not to lose 

 sight of the pain inflicted on the animals. We hope you will allow pain to balance against the 

 amount of gain by the practice. Then if the practice must be allowed, we think the operation 

 should be performed by a skilled veterinary, with proper precautions against blow-flies and 

 other dangers. This is neither commercial nor financial, but humane, and I am speaking now 

 more to the heart than to the head. 



Mr. Drury. — Assuming that we find it a practice that ought to be permitted, would it not be 

 sufficient to say that if there is unnecessary cruelty that person should be liable to prosecution, 

 and that if it is done properly there should not be the same liability ? A. Yes, I suppose so. 



Mr. Woon. — I have only to point out to the Commission that the case in England seems to 

 show that the pain inflicted was very great. The decision against the practice was given by 

 two gentlemen who could not be termed sentimentalists and they expressed very strong opinions 

 as to the character of the practice. 



Mr. Tatnt not being prepared, asked for an opportunity of addressing the Commission on 

 Thursday, which was granted. The deputation then withdrew. 



Jo.suua Ingham being called and sworn, said: I reside in York township and have been 

 engaged in the cattle business for the past thirty years. I have handled as many as 1,000 head 

 per week. My impression from the very first has been that this dehorning business is diametri- 

 cally opposed to all the interests concerned. I think it is all wrong. If we want cattle without 

 horns we could breed them, and it would be only a matter of a year or so until we could get 

 meat, milk and docility. Of course if they must come off right away, the most expeditious way 

 would be to cut them off. It is a revelation to me that dehorned cattle should be more valuable. 

 An animal that slouches along without horns is nothing like an animal with a fine noble pair of 

 horns. 



Q. Have you ever suffered loss from the horns of the cattle you have handled ? A. 1 don't 

 think J have suffered over $5100 loss in my experience. Sometimes they get their horns knocked 

 off, and you can hear them bellow and show signs of great pain. 



Q. Nunc of the witnesses claim it would not be right even if the animals were greatly in- 

 creased in value. What would you say to that ? A. Well, no, I don't belong to the humane 



t v, although I believe that it pays to treat all animals kindly. I don't think from a business 

 view there would be any gain if the horns were off. I think there would be a loss from a 

 dealer's standpoint. 



Q. If dairymen are agreed that from their standpoint there is a great advantage in having 

 hornless cattle, do you think it would bo unreasonable that they should have the right to dehorn 



