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■office. I inspected last year nearly 50,000 pieces — hides and calf skins. They are classified as 

 No. 1, 2 or 3. No. 1 is a perfect hide ; No. 2 is damaged slightly ; No. 3 is badly damaged or 

 cut. 



Q. What per cent, of damage would it be safe for you to say could be traced to horns ? 

 A. Well, I should say that out of 50,000 the number damaged by horns would be 2,500 and at 

 50 cents a hide the total loss would be about $ 1,250. 



The Commission adjourned at 5.15 to meet in the same place at 10 o'clock the followinc 

 morning. 



Thursday, June 16. 



Cornelius Flanagan, Toronto, sworn, said : I am engaged in buying cattle for export 

 and have been in the business for about 20 years. One year I handled about 30,000 head 

 altogether. Nearlj 7 300,000 head of cattle must have passed through my hands. I have known 

 a good many cattle to be damaged through being horned by each other, but whether it would be 

 a general benefit to dehorn a portion and leave the horns on the remainder I could not say. 

 If you dehorn a portion you take their weapons away, and if you mix them with horned cattle 

 you place them at the mercy of the others. 



Q. If all were dehorned would it be an advantage to exporters ? A. Likely it would. 



Q. What would you say is the loss caused by horns in bringing cattle to market on the cars ? 

 A. I should say about $5 a carload, but then a good deal of that might be prevented if proper 

 precautions were taken. 



Q. Considering the advantages financially and from the humane standpoint, if the practice 

 could be carried on without the infliction of any considerable amount of pain, do you think it 

 would be a good thing to do ? A. Yes, if you make it a universal thing. I don't think it 

 would be a benefit unless you make everybody do it. Then cattle look larger with the horns on 

 and as our cattle are so'd in the lump, dehorned ones might be estimated at less than they 

 really are If I were buying by the weight and selling by the head as at present I would prefer 

 horned cattle, but from the butchers' standpoint I would prefer dehorned cattle because or the 

 freedom from bruises. 



Q. Do you think a buyer would be deceived as to the age if the horns were off? A. I don't 

 think a man who knew his business could be taken in. If you were to take any beast and put 

 its head in a bag I could tell you about its age from its general appearance. 



Thomas A. Milne, V.S., Toronto, sworn, said : I graduated at the Ontario Veterinary 

 College in 1885. I have no experience in cutting off the horns of cattle, but I have seen part 

 of the horn taken off. I would not condescend to cut the horns off even if required to do so 

 professionally. The horn is porous and full of nerves and I consider that it is as sensitive as the 

 pupil of the eye. The closer you cut it off, the nearer you get to the brain and the worse it 

 would be. 



Mr. Gibson — Can you tell when an animal is suffering ? A. Yes, 1 think so, though there 

 are exceptions. 



Q. If you were to see a cow operated upon what symptoms would you expect ? A. I would 

 expect to see hemorrhage — possibly a teacup of blood — shaking of the head, sometimes moan- 

 ing, getting into a corner and standing there in quietness, pain and disgust. 



Q. Now, suppose you saw none of these symptoms after the operation and noticed that the 

 animal started to eat and went round in the usual way, would you say it was suffering great 

 pain ? A. If an animal acted as you say, with no falling off in appetite or milk yield, I would 

 say there was either disease of the brain or that the temperament was very peculiar. 



Q. Would there be a cessation of pain after the horns were off? A. Most certainly there 

 would be a cessation of acute pain after the severance of the nerves. 



Q. What degree of pain would there be in the healing process ? A. I could not tell, but 

 there must be some pain. We can only judge by the analogy of a human being. I think it is 

 absurd to talk of cutting off the horns — man can't improve upon nature. 1 have heard of a few 

 lives being lost by hooking but I do not regard that as sufficient reason for taking off the horns. 



Q. Would you expect suffering from one animal chasing and hooking another ? A. Yes 

 if you place the weaker ones with the others. 



Q. Now, which would sustain the greatest amount of pain, one that is constantly chased by 

 the others or one that is dehorned quickly with the best appliances ? A. There would be pain on 

 both sides and it would be a question of proportion. Some animals are worse than the others 

 and I think the owner ought to remove the vicious animal. 



8 (D.C.) 



