AWARD OP THE FISHERY COMMISSION. 2301 



Q. Taking the fishing seaport towns of Massachusetts and comparing 

 them with towns in the interior,, where they cannot possibly catch mack- 

 erel in British waters, I want to know how the relative growth of sea- 

 port towns, either in Essex County or in any of the other counties on the 

 sea-coast, compares with the growth of towns in Essex, Middlesex, and 

 Worcester Counties, away back in the interior? A. I will express my- 

 self in this way: The towns of Beverly and Marblehead, which once 

 carried on a large fishing business, have turned their attention to the 

 manufacture of shoes, and have become shoe towns now, letting the 

 fishing business go. 



Q._Take any of the seaport towns and compare their proportions ill 

 1840 and 1877; for instance, take Worcester, which has grown during 

 this period from 7,000 to 45,000. A. I could not give the exact figures. 



Q. Worcester contained 7,000 people in 1840 ; have not Clinton, Web- 

 ster, and Franklin, and all these towns grown ? A. Yes; and also Hav- 

 erhill and Lawrence, Lowell and Lynn. 



Q. Has their growth not been in greater ratio than that of Glouces- 

 ter ? A. I do not know of any place in Essex County of any account, 

 except Newburyport, which has not held its own with Gloucester ^and 

 gone ahead. 



Q. Newburyport has decayed and lost her vessel business, and'with 

 the exception of some contracts has not gained anything else ? A. 

 Yes. 



Q. And Salem has been a decayed town ? A. Yes. 



Q. But the great body of the towns in Massachusetts, wherever situ- 

 ated, have grown and prospered from 1840 up to this time in fully as great 

 a ratio as Gloucester ? A. Yes. 



Q. How have they grown up f A. Through the products of the soil 

 ,and manufacturing. 



Q. Down in Orleans they make artificial ice out of water and make 

 out of it a profitable business, I believe, but it does not follow that the 

 water before it is frozen has any particular value to be paid for ; does 

 it f And you say that fish in the sea have no commercial value explain 

 what you mean. Does a man who catches fish in the sea get in return 

 for his time and labor anything more than moderate wages for his work T 

 A. That is about the way I have placed it. He does not get any more 

 than or as much as he would for the use of the same labor and the same 

 time in any other ordinary pursuit. 



Q. And in this business ? A. He runs the risk of his life. 



Q. And in your own business you have combined the business of a 

 man who distributes the food with that of an owner of fishing- vessels T 

 A. Yes. 



Q. And the profits of your business have come, not from the catch of 

 your vessels, but from the mercantile profits that follow ; is that the case 

 also with the rest of them ? A. They all do the same thing. This gives 

 employment to a number of men who handle the fish. 



Q. And the fishermen do not make over 8300 a year to support them 

 selves and their families on shore ? A. Yes. 



Q. And they are boarded on the vessel for perhaps two-thirds of 

 year. Comparing that with the remuneration received in other branches 

 of manual labor, is it up to the average ? A. I think not. 



Q. Is it up to the average which shoemakers receive ! 



Q. Is it the average of what men who work on farms receive !- 

 do not think so. 

 Q. For how much can you hire a common laboring man n 



