2504 AWARD OF THE FISHERY COMMISSION. 







the opinion that the three-mile inshore fisheries of the gnlf were of use 

 to them or not ? A. I think they considered them of considerable value. 



Q. Yon thiuk they did ? A. Yes. 



Q. Did that opinion continue, or, if not, when did the opinion change ? 

 A. I don't know that that opinion has ever changed. 



Q. Let me read you just a few lines from the remarks of Senator Ham- 

 liu. I suppose you are a supporter of his, that you have been, and are 

 at this time? A. Yes. 



Q. He is a very able man ? A. He is said to be. 



Q. After describing the magnitude and importance of the American 

 fisheries " as the great fountains of commercial prosperity and naval 

 power/' he declared that " if American fisherman were kept out of these 

 inshore waters, the immense amount of property thus invested would 

 become useless, and leave them in want and beggary, or in prison in 

 foreign jails." A. That was in 1852. That was from headland to head- 

 land. 



Q. Xow my impression was that they were discussing the question 

 irrespective of the headland question. They were discussing the ques- 

 tion whether the fish were not caught within three miles of the shore. 



Mr. DANA. It may save you the trouble of examining if I state the 

 known fact which cannot affect the witness' mind, that that speech was 

 made while Great Britain claimed the whole Bay of Fundy and all these 

 bays. 



Mr. WEATHEKBE. He was arguing in favor of reciprocity. (To the 

 witness.) Are you acquainted with Mr. Scudder, of Massachusetts? 

 A. No. 



Q. Mr. Scudder, of Massachusetts, said, referring to the mackerel : 



These fish are taken in the "waters nearer to the coast tban the codfish are. A con- 

 siderable portion from one-third to one-half are taken on the coasts and in the bays 

 and gulfs of the British provinces. The inhabitants of the provinces take many of them 

 in boats and with seines. The boat and seine fishery is the more successful and pro- 

 fitable, and would be pursued by our fishermen were it not for the stipulations of the 

 Convention of 1818, between the United States and Great Britain, by which it is con- 

 tended that all the fisheries within three miles of the coast, with few unimportant ex- 

 ceptions, are secured to the provinces alone. Mr. Tuck, of New Hampshire, said: This 

 inshore fishery, which we have renounced, is of great value, and extremely important 

 to American fishermen. From the first of September to the close of the season, the 

 mackerel run near the shore, and it is next to impossible for our vessels to obtain fares 

 without taking fish within the prohibited limits. The truth is, our fishermen need 

 absolutely and must have the thousands of miles of shore fishery which they have re- 

 nounced, or they must always do an uncertain business. If our mackerel men are pro- 

 hibited from going within three miles of the shore, and are forcibly kept away (and 

 nothing but force will do it), then they may as well give up their business first as last. 

 It will be always uncertain. 



That was correct at that time? A. No; Mr. Tuck never went fishing 

 there. 



Q. I don't suppose Senator Hamlin did either! A. Xo. 



Q. "Were these opinions correct or not ? A. I guess not. 



Q. They didn't represent the popular view ? A. I guess they were 

 discussing the agitated question of the line from headland to headland. 



Q. I will have to read it again. " The truth is, our fishermen need 

 absolutely and must have the thousands of miles of inshore fishery which 

 they have renounced, or they must always do an uncertain business." 

 A. I understand perfectly. The idea of Mr. Tuck is that, because ves- 

 sels are excluded from three miles, it must make the business uncertain. 



Q. Do you thiuk it was a profitable business outside in the gulf at 

 that time, if they were excluded from within three miles ? A. It was a 

 profitable business. It was so in 1852, and it continued so until 1868. 



Q. If the American fishermen had been excluded by force, rigidly, 



