July 24, 1902. 



AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL 



469 



V .^ ^.s>i.^«v< .^iC^ >;st .^ ^ .^ ..M .^ xM .^ 'M .^.^ ..^^ ^ M 



\ Contributed Articles. 



Quoting the Honey Market. 



On pape l'),S, of the March 27th copy of this journal, 

 there appeared the followiuf; oti the subject of quoting the 

 honey market in the bee-papers : 



1 have hern intfrested in the honey imirkel of Chicnt^o, as I iiavc 

 been a Chicuijo bee-keeper for two summers i>asl, anil the article on 

 pa^e 1-1, liy H. A. lladfiell, is timely and larjfely to the point, as tend- 

 ini; to explain the low price of lioney to-day as compared with the 

 prices of ",'0 years a;^^<>. Tlie cominissi(jn man lias the iKiney-jiroducerR 

 in his prip in tins market, nioi'c es])eci:dly when he is a buyer as well 

 as a commission man. A buyer is always a " l)ear '' in tlie market, 

 and wlien he also trives ([Uotations of prices for the supposed guidance 

 of honey-jirodncers, it is beyond human nature, however honest he 

 may be in general, not to try to liuy low, when it is almost absolutely 

 certain that his c|uolatioDS wdl f;o to nearly all possible shippers. 



I am certain there is this tendemy here in Chicago, for 1 have 

 time and time aj^'ain investivrated prices on South Water Street, iii- 

 liuiriny: of dealers in honey, as a possible buyer, and invariably had 

 prices quoted me one cent hifjher per pound on comb honey than the 

 retrular 'cpiotations'' in the American IJee Journal. 



Again, tlie prices i|UOted for Milwaukee, Wis., are almost inva- 

 riably one cent per oound higher for comb honey of like grades than 

 for Chicago. There seeiis no good reason why Milwaukee, located 

 very much nearer the great basswood forests of the great houey-pro- 

 ducing .State of Wisconshi, should pay more than Chicago for the 

 same grade of honey, unless i^e market reports are " tixed " to suit 

 some one who is interested in bu_\ ing honey low. 



The bee-keepers of Cook Co., 111., at least, ought to have 

 organization and investigate just such things, and let the shippers 

 honey know it, as I am trying to do. Rip Van Winkle. 



Cook Co., 111. 



In reply to the foregoing- we had this editorial com- 

 ment to offer : 



Kip Van Winkle should go into the hone.v-dealing business a 

 while, for by so doing he would soon learn some things that he will 

 scarcely be able to see in any other way. Suppose the commission 

 man did publish quotations a cent or two per pound higher (at the 

 price he gets for a few single cases), how soon would it be before he 

 would have his store Hooded with honey which would be sent to him 

 because of his high quotations^ Then, of course, the market would 

 drop, and the honey would have to be sold several cents below the 

 quoted prices. How the shippers would howl then, when receiving 

 their returns. That commission man would be called a fraud, a 

 swindler, etc. 



It is better to quote a cent lower rather than a cent above the 

 market. If comb honey is quoted at I.t cents, and then sells at l(i 

 cents, and a report is made at the latter price, no bee-keeper is going 

 to kick. But quote the price at 16 cents, and then make returns at 1.5 

 cents (the best that could be obtained), and how high would the 

 shipper kick '. Well, he'd likely say, "That commission man quoted 

 high so as to get the honey into his hands, then sold it so as to get his 

 commission." 



Any " Rip Van Winkle "' who goes along the street inquiring the 

 price of honey is easily " sized up" by the commission man, who is 

 up to his business. He (the commission man) can tell very quickly 

 that "Rip" is only " nosing around," and doesn't mean to buy, in 

 nine eases out of ten. We have often been such a " Rip" ourselves, 

 and we felt the commission men of whom we inquired knew that we 

 were simply out " inquiring.'' 



But we would like to have those who quote the honey market in 

 our columns also help answer Rip Van Winkle. If allot us try. we 

 think he ought to get what he is after — or something else equally sat- 

 isfactory. 



In response to our request in the last paragraph above, 

 we have received the following from some of those who 

 quote the honey market for the American Bee Journal : 



CAN .\DD NOTHING TO OUR COMMENT. 



Editor York : — Replying to yours, wishing our views 

 as to quoting honey market, we would say your answer to 

 Rip Van Winkle in the American Bee Journal of March 27, 

 so fairly and squarely explains the matter that we can not 

 add anything to it. Very respectfully, 



Battkkson & Co., 



Per N. D. B. 

 quotations will never be alike. 



Editor York : — It is not to be expected that the market 

 quotations are to be alike, not even in the same vicinity, as 

 the different branches of business under different pressure 

 are compelled to make different quotations to protect them- 

 selves. 



The commi.ssion man will quote the article he kcIIb at a» 

 low a price as he possibly can, no as to enable him to give 

 his shipper better returns than he expected, and, therefore. 

 securing for himself his shipper's future business. 



On the contrary, the dealer will be governed by the 

 supply and offerings, and stock he has on hand, also the 

 demand and sale, to (|Uote the highest and lowest sale he 

 made to benefit his business. 



I have made it all the time my practice to give the exact 

 figures for " i|Uotation " what I was able to sell for, and not 

 prices that I would like to get. C. H. W. Wkhkk. 



honev-uealeks akk TirB people. 



Editor York : — We note Kip Van Winkle's article in 

 reference to (|Uoting the honey market, and we beg to say 

 the commission men and the honey-dealers are directly re- 

 sponsible for the large demand there is for honey today. 

 If left to the bee-keepers alone it would be impossible for 

 them to find buyers and consumers for the vast amount of 

 honey that is produced. Business is business, and a good 

 business man is of necessity a good buyer. We ask here. 

 Who is it that creates the demand for honey '.' The bee- 

 keepers, the bee-papers, the commission men, or the honey- 

 dealers ? To be sure it is none other than the dealers. 

 Their business is to buy and sell honey : while it is to the 

 credit of bee-keepers to produce the right kind of honey in 

 salable shape. 



Supply and demand regulate the price of all commodi- 

 ties, any fair-minded individual will acknowledge. Honey 

 is governed also in like manner, and because Milwaukee 

 markets will pay one cent per pound more than Chicago is 

 no criterion for all honey and prices. Very frequently in 

 one grocery you can see comb honey posted at 20 cents per 

 pound, and in the nest block priced at 18 cents, apparently 

 the same kind ; this I have observed in Cincinnati, many 

 times. 



Rip Van Winkle is apparently looking from his selfish 

 standpoint alone ; I would suggest a broader range. The 

 dealer seeks the market for the consumption of his ware. 

 while the producer yields the supply. Bee-papers, as a 

 rule, reach only the producer; the public in general is not 

 concerned in bee-literature, market quotations, etc., there- 

 fore, it devolves upon the vender, in a great measure, to 

 distribute the production ; and necessity regulates the price. 

 Periodicals do not always give correct estimates of amount 

 produced and consumed, and are at fault many times in 

 giving the producer the wrong information as to yield and 

 prospective price. 



Rip Van Winkle should hold his peace until he has 

 thoroughly gone over the territory and considered all points, 

 conditions, etc. Yours truly. 



The Fred W. Muth Co. 



Fred W. Muth, Pres. 



QUOTE three grades OF PRICES. 



Editor York: — The writer, in entering a store of one 

 of the large seed-men of Ogden, Utah, who handles a great 

 many car-loads of honey, was greeted with rather a cool 

 reception, and found out immediatel5' the cause of it was 

 the damage that he felt our Philadelphia market quotations 

 had done his market repeatedly, and the writer had im- 

 pressed upon his mind very forcibly how much quotations- 

 could damage such large car-load shipments of the West, 

 and on reaching Chicago found the whole subject of quota- 

 tions was in general discussion. 



We have always understood that the quotations in the 

 bee-papers were for the small bee keepers scattered through- 

 out the country ; that is, parties who produce from one to 

 five cases of comb honey and a few cases of extracted 

 honey, in order for them to know what they might reason- 

 ably expect as returns if their honey was shipped to com- 

 mission men in the various cities. 



Now, then, if such a honey-shipper would ship to Phila- 

 delphia to-day to a commission man, a few cases of fancy 

 white clover extracted honey, such commission man should 

 get, if he sold it to a grocer, V cents per pound. Such a 

 grocer would only buy one or two cans at a time. 



On the other hand, should California or Utah ship to 

 Philadelphia to-day a car-load of extracted honey in cases, 

 the market price would be, in car-loads, S'z cents. Now, the 

 seed-man at once says that we quote the price of 9 cents, 

 and if he shipped he would not get over 5 '2 cents. You can 

 see the reasons are very clear. On the other hand, should 

 we quote car-lot prices, we would want to give very correct 

 what a shipper might expect spot cash for same. Now, 

 then, if said shipper would ship a car-load of extracted 

 honey to Philadelphia today, and would urge the receiver 



